S-Clarke

Not to the blatant level, no. I think it's been really poor form from us. This is seemingly an fully orchestrated and organised systemic spying campaign to try to gain advantage over the course of a season, however minuscule the benefit would actually be. Sure, there may be the odd occasion where you spot something or have a bit of info that you share, and players always do have tit bits they hear, and x or y share things here and there - but reading through everything it's the systemic and seemingly purposely orchestrated approach which has caught everyone a bit by surprise I think.

I wouldn't buy any of that. If he said - 'this is common practice everywhere' , that doesn't mean it's fair game and right to do does it? Guns are legal in America, it doesn't mean I can drive to Lidl with one in my car in the UK.

They believe initially they have a legal case to be automatically promoted, but they're going to play the final to get there fair and square. That's what their own has said when working with their lawyers. If they don't win - expect absolute carnage from Hull, lawsuits directed at the EFL in the first instance I'd say. None of this is fair on Hull, they've had an amazing achievement to get where they are. They don't deserve any of this mess which we have created, but the EFL has amplified. I'm almost certainly a Hull fan on Saturday if there is any justice.

To be fair, players going or even coming is way down the list of 'happenings' at SFC for some considerable time yet. Players will want to leave, of course, but a lot of water has to go under the bridge. There's a lot to sort out, which I'm amazed to see we've come steaming out of the blocks on - yeah right. We'll have to deal with sponsors, FA investigations, management, coaching, analysts, scouts, all long before we can think about what players we will or won't have.

Personally, I'm not buying the ridiculously weak defence that he didn't know it was a rule. This sort of activity, with or without a rule, is considered grubby - let's be honest. It's considered a bit dishonest, not fair game. It's not the crime of the century, no, but it doesn't need a 'rule' written down to say it's a grubby activity to do. Of course other clubs do it, there are loads of grubby people in the world of football. That doesn't mean it's fair game to do it. The problem with us is that we were so, so, so bad at it that it's backfired in the biggest possible way. He is inexperienced, niave, I think he's another example of a 'young inexperienced' footballing person who has been thrown under the bus by SR in some respects, but he should still take responsibility for his actions as we didn't need to resort to those tactics.

This is Southampton, we are the kings of dawdling and being 'calm and relaxed' about every situation.

I've noticed the Boro fans starting to go after the Hull fans because they're whining about the decision. My biggest hope out of all of this is that Middlesborough become one of the most loathed clubs in the country, because they'll start on Wrexham next if they launch any form of appeal attempt.

This is a great post. Sums it up perfectly, I too have the feeling Boro have played a dirty trick here to give themselves two shots at Wembley. Not saying what we did was ok, because how we laid this all on a plate for them is so fricking embarrassing and heads should roll for that alone. But please, for the fairness in everything, Hull need to beat Boro - and those games against Boro next season are going to be seriously tasty.

Steve Gibson.

Yep that's pretty much it, both very balanced in their views I found. It isn't proportionate, but we gave them an opportunity to take us to the cleaners by being so stupid during the event (stupid enough to be caught), and then so, so stupid with how we handled the fall out. Boro have piled on, of course they have, but our inexperience and amateurish nature around all of this has allowed that to happen.

Absolutely. Sell up, take the financial hit as they deserve to lose out financially given what they've done to us, and give the keys to someone who knows an inch about football.

We're currently calm and relaxed about the situation. Jordan Sibley is just drinking his cup of tea.

This argument is really winding me up. Worse owners around? Look at the what the fuck these guys have done to this football club since 2022! Just look! Don't mind me if I do ask for a hell of a lot more than we have today.

Can no one remember the trouble we had before? What? What about the trouble we have now? Do you ever look at the current situation? The trouble we have now is REAL, CURRENT. It isn't changing. They have relegated us TWICE, once with a record low total, spent £300m on absolute shite, gone through too many managers to remember, and have now managed to orchestrate our removal from a final because of our incompetence. The EFL have been ridiculous, yes, but this is another sorry show on their watch. We will start next season on -4 points. We are in the midst of chaos today, not tomorrow, not in the past. Today. Wake the hell up Manji. Your head isn't just in the sand, it's been buried in it and it's about to resurface on an Australian beach.

If he doesn't have the appetite to go again, then he needs to ditch us ASAP and find new investment who does have an appetite. He's caused this mess. He either fixes it aggressively, (doubtful), or he gives the keys to someone who can.

Other than him paying the 200k fine, no. In fact the media pleaded for the authorities to not even give him a touchline ban, as it would be so unjust (quote, henry winter). So he paid the fine, that was that. No bans, no sanctions. Laughed off. Same crime.

On the OS.

Oh yeah that guy was the worst of the worst with all this. The sheer justification in the differing responses is just stupid. Rule or not rule, it's the same crime. First time the crime is committed, laugh it off, silly billy Bielsa. Second time, now there is a rule for said crime, BURN THEM ALL. The media have taken this club to the cleaners and I want to know why.

All fair enough if he was in the dark, but he's been in the dark with everything which has been going on here. How long do we give him the slack to be so 'unaware' of the utter mess charlatans are making of his investment? He has had plenty of opportunities to be closer to the action, yet he still doesn't seemingly have a full handle over it.

Let him hoover up the mess first.

It stinks mate. I feel some sort of stich up, and funnily enough said stitch up has given Boro more of an advantage than we gained. Obviously that'll never be proven, but it all stinks to me.

The EFL can't punish the individuals, but the FA can bring sanctions upon them (such as bans etc). EFL can't do that.

This is now about bringing charges to the individuals. The EFL have punished the fans and players, now the FA will punish the individuals who actually did it. Feels backwards but there we are.

Doesn't this sort of thing go on more than we realise? What about those leaked teams to the media 24 hours before games, how have they been got hold of? You never hear the same sort of noise around those, just dealt with internally. There are snakes in football and clubs feed info between people all the time, I'm sure of it - just to try and gain a bit extra. Bit of money changing hands here and there for an inside scoop. But it makes how we approached it even more crazy, a camera behind a tree ffs. We were literally asking to be caught and beaten to a pulp by Steve Gibson.

I think there are probably mixed emotions internally. I'm sure the players, being closer to this than the rest of us, appreciate that 'spying' somewhat happens everywhere and I'm sure they've experienced it at past clubs, so hearing a few snippets in team interviews is probably par the course across most teams. So I'd suggest quite a bit of their anger will be at the EFL for ripping the world from underneath them for no fault of their own. But equally, I think they have every right to be angry with the club in relation to how we've conducted ourselves throughout this. The stupidity and blatantness of it, getting caught, trying to worm out of it and allowing the club and players reputations to be dragged through the mud in the aftermath. So my feel is that in the main the players anger will be with the EFL, as I'm sure they'll see this as hugely disproportionate as their careers have been damaged for no fault of their own, but also frustration and anger with their employers as to how they've dealt with it. It's an absolute mess.