*Halo*

Lol, that is quite possible, although the beauty of developing an ability to not take such things personally, is that such comment would be received with detached indifference anyway. It would not even warrant a response. I don't care for arguments, labels, and endless blame-games. I just care about Southampton Football Club, and the sooner this takeover can be completed, and we can put all the bitter divides of the past behind us, the better. Anyway, I'd better save my last post in case anything of significance occurs at some point today. I live in hope.

As a relatively detached observer of the long running battles between some of the 'personalities' in the various 'camps' on this message board (and it's previous incarnations), I don't usually get involved in such 'wars of words'. I'm not in a 'camp', personally. I believe that all who've been in 'power' at our Club over the last 10 years or so have to take responsibility for their parts in the demise of this great Club. They've all made mistakes, and all carry a share of the blame for where we find ourselves today. Thing is though SaintRichmond, you don't do yourself any favours in the manner in which you present yourself here. As you rightly state above, all are entitled to their opinions, and all are entitled to disagree with them. On this issue of Rupert Lowe however, whether or not you intend to do so, you consistently present your opinion that he "WILL" return, "make no mistake" etc, as though it were irrefutable fact, and it is this, that seems to me to really get people's backs up and invites the criticism that you seem to receive rather frequently here. Perhaps if you were able to tone down the manner in which you present your personal opinions as though they were nailed down facts, you may find that people are more inclined to treat you with greater respect, and listen to what you have to say? Nothing personal my friend, just a neutral observation. Take it or leave it as you wish.

I am not directing my post at you personally Webby, but rather just using this quote to address a point. I note that this has now been mentioned to an extent on page 3 of this topic, and that it is not a direct quote (from the FL), but for the Echo to state so unequivocally that the FL have "stressed very firmly" that further points deductions are not being considered, leaves them very little wriggle room if the FL did in fact not give such assurances. It would have been very easy for the Echo to say the same thing, without being anywhere near as firm in their statement as they have been. That is a long way to have to climb down if their statement is in fact inaccurate. Furthermore, in relation to points raised regarding the plurality of the term "Sanctions" as quoted by the 'FL spokesperson', I am not inclined to see anything more to this than a referral to Section 3; article 12.3 of the Football League Regulations, entitled "Sporting Sanctions". I may be wrong of course, but my reading of the quote is that the spokesperson is just making reference to the section and article of their regulations that Pinnacle took issue with, rather than inferring additional sanctions could take place. Personally, I have been unhappy with the FL's stance toward us throughout this whole debacle, but, that is going on the information that had been made available thus far. Depending upon the accuracy of this article, this does cast a different light on my perspective. Due to the fact that for Pinnacle's takeover to have gone through, it would be presumed that the creditors must have come to an agreement, that, for me, must have adequately dealt with the CVA issue. Maybe SFC Ltd do not have a piece of paper that says 'CVA' written on it to give to the FL, but the fact that SLH had agreement with it's major creditors to the deal surely resolves the CVA issue satisfactorily for the FL, given their stance of SLH and SFC being "inextricably linked". It would take some harsh pedantry of the highest order from the FL, to then hit SFC with further sanctions for not having a CVA, I mean, are we "inextricably linked", or not? I for one, would be most interested to hear Mr. Lynam's reaction to this article.

If you (from FL perspective) are adamant that you are going to (inappropriately) sanction a Club for the Holding Company's Administration, (after they've driven an Abrams Tank through your loophole) despite explicitly telling them beforehand that you will not, you need a new 'plan' of attack. Like issuing a 'finding' that the Club and Plc are 'one "inextricably linked" entity', and proving this becomes your main focus point. If you then find yourselves after the event 'proved' blatantly 'wrong', and in a compromised position, you would likely be very much hoping that the Club itself did actually go into Administration, thus removing your problem. So, if you were then able to find a way to assist this in occurring, preferably within your own rules, you'd be likely to take this factor into consideration. Or, if you were able to force said Club down such a route that it becomes apparent to them that such an outcome is likely should they fail to agree to your 'conditions' (such as refusing them a license to partake in your league if they do not sign a certain document); you may well feel inclined to take a little stroll down that avenue. (As your ruling stays intact, no loss of face, and Club still gets to exist and be in the League). The 'Golden Share' is basically the Club's 'right' to play in the Competition (or a glorified 'membership card', if you will). Some seem to misperceive it as the FL holding a 'Golden Share' in the Clubs, rather that the other way around; as in the Clubs given a 'Golden Share' in the Organization (FL), which can be retracted by the FL at any time it deems fit, should any Club be found in breach of it's Regulations. When a Club goes into Administration, it is served 'notice' by the Football League of impending Sanctions, part of which includes the agreement of a CVA with creditors, in order to exit Administration, and have the notice withdrawn. So technically (although there may have been exceptions) if a Club which has been in Admin, does not have a CVA, the FL will not withdraw it's notice of expulsion from it's membership. SFC does not have CVA, as SFC was, as has been stated all along, never in Administration. The legal documentation in Pinnacle's bid makes this perfectly clear and concise, and that is a big problem for the Football League. There are likely many 'maneuvers' to be considered at the "Emergency Meeting" on Monday, whether or not they turn out in our favour, or whether the FL have the bottle to take on the legal implications that denying the takeover on the grounds they currently stand on, we shall have to wait and see. Though I feel quietly confident that something will be worked out, and it will all go through early next week. Indeed Nick. I feel similarly. I don't post much. I usually much prefer reading what others have to say, unless I feel there is something of value I can contribute. Mostly someone else articulates my own ideas perfectly well, so I need say nothing. Whilst I do not say that my perspective here is necessarily "right", I did feel it worth sharing on this occasion, to hopefully shed light on what may be happening 'behind the scenes' presently. That would tend to be how I see things currently too. I could be wrong of course. I hear what you're saying, and indeed, Mr. Fry did say as much. But, FL Regulation 12.3.10 states: It could well be argued that this has already occurred when the FL sent in their 'forensic experts' to examine and investigate us, and if so, this has to be taken as the point at which time the appeal was 'lodged'. In which case: In which case, again, if our time has passed, and that 'appeal' is over; then, all we would have left are the legal steps which the FL are so keen to enforce us to avoid. Also noteworthy, pertaining to our alleged 'uncooperative' stance when under investigation (something I always felt to be 'engineered' by the FL) is Regulation 71.4: So I'd imagine it safe to speculate that in the eyes of the FL, that level of our appeals process would be deemed well and truly over. Anyway, that is all I have time for at the moment. I shall begin my retreat back to lurking in the shadows. I hope I've been able to at least offer another perspective of what may or may not be occurring 'behind the scenes' right now. A 'power play', in many aspects, where the stakes are extremely high, and no side can afford to lose. I envision a compromise of some kind, that all can emerge from without losing any further 'face'. Needless to say, I fervently hope that I am correct.

Indeed, there is 'something more' to it than just the points deduction; and the key is here: This is not only about the deduction, but actual membership of the Football league. And as Mark Fry is indicating, no bidder, Pinnacle or otherwise, is going to want to complete a purchase of the Club if the Football League are failing to guarantee the Club will have a place in the League for the coming season. It appears (from studying the various information we've seen over the last few days), that the FL has engaged in a little "repositioning of the goalposts". All was on course, deal agreed, finances in place, new Board of Directors approved. But, it would seem that when the FL read our Legal Documentation regarding the structure of our deal and the way it is formulated, that SFC Ltd would have a very good legal case against the points deduction. The following FL Regulations (governing the appeals process) are noteworthy: So unless The Administrator of SLH had already lodged this appeal and payed the corresponding sum, at the time when he was first speaking about it (and very well, I might add) in the media, then the usual SSAP (Sporting Sanctions Appeal Panel) process is no longer available to us. Time has long since expired. Leaving only a costly legal challenge as a future option. Lord Mawhiney (sp intentional) must've been feeling pretty pleased with himself. He holds grudges; and he's just settled a long standing one (against his old adversary, Rupert Lowe). But, what if, your Organization had already previously responded to an inquiry from SFC/SLH (before going into Administration), stating explicitly that it had to be the "Football Club" and not the "Holding Company" going into Administration, in order for points to be deducted? What if, you then called an "Emergency Meeting" to justify a u-turn in your position (against your own rules and regulations) to 'find' that the Holding Company and the Club are "inextricably linked"? Ahh, well then, you could just brush it all under the carpet and pat yourselves on the back. But then, what if the way our bid's documentation is structured and formulated, exposes the weakness of the Football League's position (and the illegality of their actions), and that by signing it, they are leaving themselves open to being torn apart in court by a legal challenge? Well, then you could try to throw in a clause which states that for SFC's membership to be accepted, you must sign a statement waiving your right to a Legal Appeal. In other words, if you don't agree not to take us to court and expose our incompetence, then we won't sign off your takeover, and you won't have a League Football Club anyway. Scare tactics. (Otherwise known as blackmail). The FL knows that is has f*cked up royally, and is franticly scampering around (again), calling emergency meetings, and trying to cover it's tracks. They will do everything they can, to force their decision and it's consequences (points deduction) down our throats. Including threatening to scupper our takeover and effectively finish our Club off. That's some thin ice you're treading on there, Mr. Mawhiney. I'd tread very carefully, if I were you. Personally, if I were Pinnacle / Mark Fry, I'd be inclined to hold my nerve and call their bluff. The Legal implications for the FL (in light of their previous actions and what they're now trying to do) could be enormous. This is all in my personal opinion of course.

Steady on 1976_Child, you're going to give yourself an aneurysm. It's not all just going to fall apart as the big hand passes 5 'o' clock (or 7 'o' clock or whatever 'o' clock). From the information that can be ascertained through reading here and elsewhere today, the deal itself is agreed. The finances are in place, and the Administrator is happy to conclude the sale. Just because a certain bitter and twisted grudge-holding Lord MuppetWhinger at the FL wants to try to throw a spanner in the works to paper over the cracks of his monumental c*ck up, that is not going to jeopardize the Pinnacle deal. As Derry explains, so long as Mark Fry is happy that Pinnacle have completed their end of the deal, and it is the FL holding things up through their own pedantry, it is at his (Fry's, not the FL's) discretion as to whether to extend the deadline or not. There would be little reason I can see for him to blow out a perfectly good deal that he, the Club, the new owner and creditors alike are all happy with. I'm sure Fry, Pinnacle and our Legal teams know what they're doing. I expect Mahwinney likely shat himself when reading the legal documentation regarding the structure of the deal for the Club, and is pussyfooting around to work out how to extricate himself; hence the delays. We just have to hold our (collective) nerve whilst the FL exhaust their options and realize they've been thoroughly outwitted and have no leg to stand on. Then they'll have no choice but to ratify the deal, once they consider the likely consequences of a legal challenge. Just be patient for a little while longer mate. I am sure things will all work out fine.

Another resounding No.

Indeed so.

Paul is my preference too. I've watched his Exeter side on three occasions this season when visiting family down that way, and was impressed by the way his team play. A short, sharp passing game, which unlike many teams who employ a slower tempo for this style, Exeter move the ball around quickly and look to get players forward into attacking positions. The fitness levels of Tisdale's team were also impressive, and they work very hard for each other 'off the ball' to create space. All very much the kind of things and style I want to see at Southampton. I was also impressed with his ability to alter his formation and tactics when needed in order to change a game. It would be refreshing to have a manager who has a well drilled 'plan b' (and even a plan c) at his command, in charge at Southampton. Taking into account his successive promotions with Team Bath, and what looks like possibly becoming two in a row now with Exeter, Paul's stock is definitely on the rise. A very good young 'English' manager (although technically, he was born in Malta ) , who comes across as positive, well spoken and honest in his dealings with the media. I would definitely like to see Paul Tisdale as our new manager. I feel it would be a very positive and forward looking appointment. Hopefully he would be the kind to stick around for the long term too, and provide us with the seemingly elusive managerial stability we've been seeking for so long.

Untenable. Very disappointed. I believe that in the best interests of the Club going forward, it is necessary to completely draw a line under the debacle of this season's "revolutionary" experiment. For me, that has to mean a completely clean slate as far as our coaching set up is concerned. Enough with the 4-2-3-1s, 4-1-2-1-2s and "total football" please. The only diamonds I expect to see at SFC are the kind worn by our over-paid and underperforming players. Let's get back to basics. An english manager who knows the lower leagues and can motivate the players to perform in them, (someone like Paul Tisdale or Steve Cotterill would be my preference, no guarrantees an 'Ince' type would be prepared to stick around for the long haul, and that's what I believe we need in our next managerial appointment); playing a normal, solid, easy to understand 4-4-2 system, with two natural widemen, two central midfielders and two strikers. Then give them a good old fashioned 'Strachanesque' gruelling Pre-Season fitness regime of running up and down the sand dunes until they're physically sick, then making them do it all over again. Let's have an end to 'tippy tappy' showboating with no end product, and instead have a team that is build on hard graft and work-rate. A team that is both physically and mentally prepared for the battles that will lie ahead to get this Club heading back in the right direction. Of course, I want to see my Team as successful and highly placed in the League system as possible, but ultimately, I care far more about watching a Team of Committed Professionals who are willing to die for eachother and for the cause, than I do about what division we are playing in. I just want a Club, Staff, Coaching set up, and players, that I can feel proud of again. It's been far too long since I was able feel that way.

Michael... but... Riding in on the crest of a wave of promised salvation; seducing us with glossy manifestos of false hope, yet delivering only broken dreams, abject failure, and unmitigated financial disaster; is more than bad enough. But bringing back Rupert Lowe to unleash his "revolutionary" ideas upon us, and ultimately ensure our destruction? That's just unforgivable.

I don't post much anymore, because I only tend to post when I've got something positive to say. There is nothing positive that can be said about my football club anymore, but I can no longer remain silent about our demise. Today was the final straw, and the sickening shattering sound of the camels back snapping under the weight of years of mismanagement, echoed and reverberated around a hollow and disenchanted St. Mary's. And as Southampton Leisure Holdings PLC continues to drain the last few drops of lifeblood out from the shell that remains, of what was once a proud and competitive Football Club, so I felt the last few drops of hope being drained away, by yet another dismal Home capitulation; to another relegation rival. Like so many others above me, this is the lowest I have ever felt, supporting Saints. It feels like watching a much loved friend slowly dying before my eyes, and being powerless to prevent it. Mr. Poortvliet is a perfectly nice, well mannered and well meaning gentleman, but unfortunately, Mr. Poortvliet is utterly out of his depth, and with his hands tied by financial constraints, is unable to tread water. He is sinking fast; and he is taking us down with him. I was prepared to give him time, but enough is enough now. Someone needs to pull him out. The experiment has failed Mr. Lowe. It is over. It has to end now. Jan Poortvliet must go, along with his 'coaching' staff, and you and Michael Wilde must go with them Rupert. I used to love going to watch Southampton play football. It was always the highlight of my week. Now though, I've ended up dreading it. Up until now, I've often sat in a freezing cold apartment, just to save enough money on electric to be able to afford to go to an obscenely over-priced St. Mary's twice a month. But the 'product' is no longer satisfying. All the enjoyment has been taken out of it. It is no longer 'worth it', and this 'customer' can no longer justify the sacrifices I make, to pay for a 'matchday experience' that almost always ends up making me feel miserable. It is soul-destroying, being at St. Mary's these days. It used to be the Hope that was unbearable; now it is just the results. That, and the painful inadequacy of the manager's selection, strategy, tactics, formation, and ability to motivate, communicate with, and correctly utilize the players at his disposal. One League win, in Fourteen Home games, is way beyond unacceptable. It is abysmal. It is P!ss Poor. We need to clear the decks, have a fresh approach, and get back to basics, if we are to have any remote chance of salvaging anything from the wreckage of this season. An English Manager, who knows what is required to compete in this division, preferably one who also has some level of affection for our Club, who can at the very least instill some passion and fight into the side. An attacking 4-4-2 formation at Home, playing with width, and using players in their correct positions would be a good base to build from. When the current management has gone, and the unbearable Hope returns, I'll return too. But for now, I'm enjoying sitting in a nice warm apartment for a change, and at least feeling miserable in relative comfort. Someone, somewhere, who even remotely cares about this Club and has the means/power to make a difference, has to do something, now. Otherwise, this is not going to have a happy ending.

Saw on SSN last night, that Leandre Griffit has been released by Crystal Palace after a six month spell at the club. He never really had many opportunities here before, but I remember a lovely finish from him in the Prem when coming off the bench against Chelsea. Given our current situation, I wonder if he may be worth another look?

Saeis has signed. Now on OS: http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=11195 Lol @ the asterisked emphasis.