david in sweden

now that Jack Cork has picked up a knock...JWP might find himself closer to a starting place...?

not to further complicate this very unusual thread....I do read you often Dibden, but ... A)..who do you compare our players to ?........someone great in the past?.....or, current Prem. players ? ...or who? New players seldom settle in well from Day One. It took Billy Sharp two months before he got his regular spot and started his scoring spree. B)..possibly , but you often seem to highlight names that few other people mention. I do think that some (others) " rave" over players who are not up to it . Does that make you smarter .or "different "? C).. I've noticed that some people are quick to "sell / sack" players who have a poor game...even if it's a friendly. Maybe not you..? but I think (one) needs to look longer term before judging players too quickly.

worthy ......perhaps ?

having come this far in his career I'm sure Rickie will want to get some goals, but as a Prem. player past 30... he knows its not only his shirt that's numbered. Sooner...(but hopefully later) he'll have difficulty to get a starting place. Till then, Billy and Jay Rod will play second fiddle... until they find form, and take over the top scoring role.

agreed... but it has to be said that not being regularly selected and after being on the bench 29 times last season, it's hardly fair to judge SDR (or anyone else) on the basis of 10-15 mins. in a game that's almost played out. If a sub. comes on and scores, (and we had eleven who did so last season) and SDR did so 3 times then we say he did well, but it might have been their only contribution (as was Lee Holmes last gasp effort v. Watford). Guly btw, was our third highest scorer last season and netted 11 times in all games, and he was the player subbed most times and did well (IMHO) for someone who wasn't on the pitch 90 mins. every game

yes, but even though we were very successful last season, we might have had many more goals had our wonderful midfield "build-ups" been rewarded by better efforts in the six yard box.

FWIW .... I agree with both of you .... but I am equally convinced that NA has his " wish list " for CBs (as well as other positions), but for one reason or another... none have come on board - at present. Naturally, it can be for a number of reasons. The club won't sell, or if they are willing - they are asking a ridiculous price for an over-rated player, or indeed if the player doesn't want to come...or, maybe on closer inspection, he isn't the right article (for us) Last season started with Fonte and Martin, but with Jaidi still injured and then.... the " Seaborne Incident " we were down to basics. Whether by chance or design, Jos H. was surely a much bigger success than most people thought (especially Celtic fans). Now we are in the same situation. I hope to see Aaron Martin back next season as a more-experienced and polished player, but in the meantime we need two names to be in readiness. I'm sure that NA hasn't ignored the issue, but timing with transfers (as we have often seen in the past)... isn't always something that can be measured on a clock - but a calendar.

somehow the football world has got hung up on Goals of the Season that come from; a skilful lob, or an angled shot and the well-placed header... but now we have (Billy Sharp) who to my mind, is what used to be called....an old-fashioned centre forward. I've watched several play backs of Billy-type goals and the word that comes to mind is....untidy. Not that he's lacking in some manner of skill in scoring, but Billy's " crash-bang " style does bring results. Looking at the run-in last season, Billy scored 8 goals in the last 8 games, whereas Rickie (who we depended on so much in early season...managed 3 in the same 8 games).... no implied criticism of RL btw.... just stats. It does however remind me of older names like; George Kirby, Colin Clarke, Iain Dowie and David Hirst. Strikers who... one way or another got the ball over the line - even if it was in a rather scrappy fashion at times. This is by no means a criticism of Billy (who I quite admire)... but a reminder that football is sometimes a tough, physical-contact sport, and there are still players around who aren't afraid to get in and " mix it " a bit. Best of luck Billy ! (more of the same please).

Of course this is the key question. Everyone hopes that RL will carry on where he left off in April, but ..what if ? At aged 30...sooner..(but hopefully later) his departure time will come and it's no good waiting to look for a replacement then....we won't find another RL. Players of his ilk are a " one-off " who succeed with a team built to serve his skills. Older fans will recall the rather dubious (and then) record signing... of CF Ron Davies from Norwich in 1966, where he was a fairly good but not outstanding striker. Suddenly playing in a side with two good wingers his goalscoring talent broke all records and within a couple of years he was the League's top scorer and described as the best CF in Europe..(by Man.U manager Sir Matt Busby - no less ).. Ricky has achieved miracles in the last 3 seasons - even beyond his own expectations - but there will come a time when he's no longer there .... What will Life after Rickie be like? Nothing is forever, and a team is always in a process of change. I'm pretty sure we won't be playing the same formation then...We have the type of player NA wants,;T.Lee, Jay Rod and Billy Sharp .....(and even one or two more in the future perhaps.?) Experimenting a little with a Plan B, is a good idea but that takes time. We know what worked before...but that style may not be so successful in the Prem. and so the obvious alternative is a little trial-and-error in friendly fixtures.. where three points aren't at stake every game. I'm trusting NA to find the right formula and a bit of experimentation does no harm - even if it doesn't succeed every time.

there are several issues here, and we don't seem to share the same view. Firstly, having watched Butland in the Team GB games; I admit he has talent but I don't see him as a Prem. quality keeper. I believe Saints did bid for him, but I'm wondering if anyone else did ?.......and having got a bid from us ....did Brum look at our bank balance and...... with the help of the media .....up the ante beyond £6 mill? Answer : I don't see us going back with a higher bid now, and buying Gazza looks a better deal anyway. Had we bought (Butland) ....I don't think NA would have dropped KD in the first match in favour of Butland - do you ? Butland is surely a talent for the future, but I don't see him (even) as a regular keeper for Brum next season, let alone for a Prem. side. This is merely a g*t reaction, and I have been wrong before. I would still like to see another experienced / former Prem./ type keeper as no.2 (for KD). If Kelvin (God forbid) got injured... I wouldn't want to throw in Gazza permanently ... or have to try experimenting with loan keepers for half a season.

Mmm....maybe, but pre season friendlies are all about fitness of the regulars ...and the chance for new and fringe players (like JWP) to impress. If they don't ...they'll be on the bench for most of the early season games. Looking at the start XI for the Brizzle match, it doesn't seem like NA needs to be impressed by last seasons regulars, but the second half (sub.) performances will be most interesting to analyse.

we have to be fair to both these guys. SDR was used constantly as a late sub. and that hardly gives anyone the chance to come on and change the face of the game,. especially if he was replacing someone who was not his style. Even after JP returned.... he didn't get a regular look in.....(3 starts and 4 late sub.apps) ....primarily because the team as a unit were playing well .....and who wants to change a winning side. I think that both will need to show they can perform .... or will be out the door in January.

who asked that?

Perhaps not this season, but half a season in L2 (good though he might have been) doesn't exactly qualify (him) for a regular spot as a Prem. keeper. ....and TB(brutally)H ....I wasn't over-impressed by his games for Team GB ....were you ? At the moment, he is still a Brum reserve and will stay so if they (Brum) continue to demand huge fee for his services. He might well go out on loan again, but I wonder if he will even be their regular keeper this (coming) season.

well Kraken, as he's only played half a season for Gillingham.........I don't think that rates him as a candidate for Prem. keeper - or do you ? Of course we'd all like to see him (Gazza) succeed (if /when required,) but I think we're skating on thin ice if anything " goes wrong" with KDs situation.

as I haven't yet seen confirmation of the Everton lad having signed - that means we have to have one more keeper then .......?

well you taken up the subject Kraken.... but missed my point. Firstly I'm talking about a no. 2 keeper (ala Bart) as back-up/challenger to KD. At present we have only ONE senior keeper ....KD. Even if we sign another... we won't be talking about SENIOR keepers as "Gazza" is only 20 .. (was it ?) and ...theoretically at least, he won't even need to be registered in the 25 squad. If I was NA...... I'd think very carefully about the possibility of going into a Prem. season with only one experienced keeper...(in the event of a serious injury to KD)......what " reliable " keeper could you get..(and for how long) ...who wasn't already signed up with another club?

I've gone back to yr.#1 post (as the thread seems to have drifted off the subject) and ask myself .....what is yr. definition of ...QUALITY? Does that mean spending a LOT of money ? Do you mean ...an experienced Prem./former Prem. player........with a record of games. Is 50, or 100 games enough? ....or more ? If not a regular with a Prem. side ..does that mean he's not upto it ? ....or a player from one of the relegated sides ....and were they part responsible for the clubs relegation?. Are we expected to bid for an established Prem. player from an existing side (?)...and at what price?..... when the likes of Blackburn, Wolves, and Brum are quoting ridiculous fees (everyone has a price). in short, QUALITY is down to the right player WCDAJFU ....regardless / or despite their previous clubs success / failures. Getting players with talent, and further honing their skills to fit "our formation " seems to be the no.1 criteria.... regardless / irrespective of past performance. I won't start a list here now, but quite a number of players have met that criteria in the recent past and didn't cost us an arm and a leg either......

back to the original discussion about no. 2 keeper. I still expect us to sign ... "an experienced, international / Prem. keeper " as... no.2 / back-up / competition to KD. The like of "Gazza" and this Davies lad from Everton (if that happens)....... will fight it out for a season or two until the time that KD leaves his gloves in the drawer.

It seems we will have a trend of " DNCTM threads" on players that various individuals " don't rate " for some reasons..or another. Everyone's entitled to an opinion ...and that's clearly yours. Come back in December and see who agrees with you. I wonder who will be courageous enought to start a DNCTM thread on Rickie Lambert.....before August 19th?

so do I, but he won't be a regular in the 25 squad until he's had more games. If he turns in MOM award every other week, NA will know he's " the real thing" and be able to use him in the Prem.

is it just me....... or does anyone else think that Butland looks a bit " overvalued" at £6 million ? I watched him in¨the Team GB games and YES he does have talënt ---.but 6 mill ? ..... I think Brum may regret not taking our offer .....if indeed we made one for that value. Let's hope that "Gazza " CDAJFU" instead.

the other point being, of course, that these lads (LS, JWP and Co.) are more likely to see Prem. match action at SMS than they are at Chelsea or Arsenal. Can anyone see Luke Shaw displacing say....Ashley Cole in the Chelsea set-up? More likely he would spend much time on the bench..if he's lucky. There is of course, sometimes very sad tailpiece to some of these transfer deals.. In the 1970's ...Newcastle (I think) bought a promising Scots striker ..(Jim Smith) across the border but hardly played him in the first team. But when asked why he wasn't played more often...the(then) manager was reputed to have said...? well, firstly...he doesn't always fit the formation we play...but also....whilst we've got him no-one else can use him. Newcastle did well that season, whilst Smith's career went downhill, and he later returned to Scotland a much wiser man. Taking a promising youngster "out of the System " and putting him in the youth squad is a highly cynical way of "defusing" any threat from an opposing club.

I think there was a story that Davis took a knock during the pre-season romp in France, and so he is being given time to recoup. NA surely knows why he bought him, and where he will play ..so there is no hurry to play him (in public) as most of the planning is done on the practice pitch, and besides it's a chance to see how some of the " also-rans " and the young talents will fit in... without putting 3 points at jeopardy.

Can't say I go along with you on that one Kraken...." possible." ...but hardly likely. Managers say teams are built from the back. We have one new face ---with Clyne, but I can't see Adkins " breaking in" TWO new central defenders in such a short time, though I do expect at least ONE experienced CB before 19th August.