Nineteen Canteen

The club will miss your contributions Alps. Still better than no club at all eh?

With respect contribution past, present or future is no defence for vandalism and theft no matter how petty and irrelevent you may deem it. The fact the club is on its knees and you can surely appreciate the anger of many fans and you'll be hard pressed to argue it's not counterproductive to those bucket collections and donations. How much does it cost to relay a pitch? From where I stood looked good enough for League 1.

Tame I agree! Its been bad for a while on Radio Hampshire so much so I'm forced to listen to Solent for my pre-match 'entertainment' who seem obessed with Weymouth. If Armstrong is ever employed by the club can you imagine how he will answer a difficult question from his new employers, the same as he does on the radio? Well David, we have been relegated what should we do? 'Er well, I don't know as it never happened to me as a player' What game plan shall we adopt in the 3rd tier of English Football? 'Er well, I don't know as it never happended to me as a player' Anyone who has listened to the 3rd half will know what I'm talking about. I can also remember David Armstrong being involved with Andover FC. Takes a hell of a leap of imagination and faith to want David employed by the club. I suppose he could read out the HT and FT results. Anyway what happened to Case (I prefer to talk about Liverpool) and Flash Watson who was controversial but at least entertaining. Is there any truth that Case was moved on for listening unchecked to a Tijuana Tim soliloquy on how great his mate Jimmy was? (Only joking Tim, seriously!)

McGoldrick's dodgy penalty taking has cost us 3 points this season. (2pts today & 1 v. Wolves at home) Blimey he makes Berbatov's penalty from last Sunday look good. Still its all academic now and would have only prolonged the agony.

Excellent news and Saga can go now as he is alledgedly so keen to join Legia Warsaw. Also the last person to ask if a player is 100% match fit is the player himself. Did he mention how he proved his match fitness to the coaching and medical staff? Question to J Bizzle.

Weston, I don't disagree and comes back to the point it depends who is buying the club. Logically, a new owner will want to set out to make money from their investment but equally they could prove to be in the long run a chancer or a charlatan that only becomes apparent before its too late. The days of the sugar daddy may be gone but the ability to act like one may not and I don't think that fear is misplaced. Private Ownership only has to answer to themselves of the fans (if they wish) who can walk away again like they have done this season. If the new owner regardless of their intention to make money starts to lose sense of the reality and gets out of step with fans expectations the fans won't even have a Crouch type figure with a stake in the club to try and influence change. Neither will those fans have any stake in the club themselves to promote revenue and unity. It really depends on an assessment of the new owners but I personally would always prefer some form of public or privately shared ownership so both fans amd employees can be part of the success but neither would I dismiss an alternative dependent on the buyer.

Alps if you believe it's solely the PLC structure that has led to this day then you are the moron. Donating tickets whilst worthy and I am not knocking Roswell's initiative and he deserves great credit but it could have been done months ago but many were to busy focusing on acheiving their moronic objectives. Well done Alps you got what you wished for instead of trying to encourage others to support the club from the word go this season.

Selective response once again from Ginger and no attempt to consider AP's comments at least.

Give it up Stephen. The whole club is on the brink and you continue with your petty little agendas and childish ripostes. Why aren't you at the fund raising meetings that must be going on this morning to organise the day's collections along with the likes of Nick Illingsworth, Steve Grant, Derry and the rest?

Make money or preserve shareholder value? If Shares are rewarded to employees as part of a bonus scheme why not reward fans with shares who invest in Season Tickets. The more you buy and the longer the period the more shares you are awarded. If it's seen a company looks after its shareholders it will encourage investment and increase revenue. If PLC is such a bad thing how about a private partnership like the John Lewis Group but open it up to customers, fans in this case. Shared ownership is a good thing, the person appointed CEO is the key.

To promote thoughtful debate? There is always a danger in the brave new world we end up with some despotic chairman who is intent on developing the club to meet his own purposes and without the need to be answerable to shareholders let alone fans. The grass isn't always greener and perhaps a plc under a different CEO isn't necessarily a bad thing. Share ownership undeniably helps a sense of ownership and a collective desire to see the club/company succeed if as many as possible have part ownership especially employees and committed fans/customers. Shared ownership is still viewed with suspicion, the blue collar vs white collar scenario that society has done a lot to move away from. However, some in football prefer the old Victorian method of ownership as if your football club was a coal mine from some D H Lawrence novel. Both models have disadvantages and is dependent on the business proposal and buyers. What if Rupert Lowe bought the club and continued as owner and chairman and no shareholders like Leon Crouch to challenge his thinking? Rupert Lowe back in charge of a PLC would be altogether a touch more democratic. Extreme example but a PLC will always be less autocratic and more transparent and to blindly dismiss it, is ludicrous. Chelsea to a degree have lost their identiity and when Roman gets bored, what then? He answers to no one but himself, same as Gaydamak.

Maybe your right Tame but using you analogy don't beat me up over the fact I feel let down by those supporters who have stayed away this season and who's actions you have defended based on the quality on display. Ultimately, supporters do support in good and bad times lets hope it doesn't go beyond bad .

Well may be going forward clubs will have to reasses those plans and maybe Lowe's template will be adopted. There can't be any coincidence that we shall be going down with Charlton and most likely Norwich. 3 teams that we can all associate with being in the top division and the fact both Charlton and Saints are going down just 6 years between them both after being in the premiership is surely a warning to others. Wolves may have got the template right.

Weston, Thanks for this as usual you understand absolutely correctly where I am coming from. Off course I am a massive fan of MLT but I thought his comments were a bit emotive and selective and he would have been better advised to avoid the whole blame issue and concentrate on being the perfect ambassador this club has in waiting. I note your comments on Leon Crouch and certainly I felt he handled himself and the situation very well on SSN last night. Likewise, I felt his rhetoric in the past to be full of false promises and a touch jingoistic but last night he was very measured and got across well the gravity of the situation. NC

I agree it's not the supporters fault it has been mis-managed but they contributed to the problem. MLT was not balanced in his views IMO and the as far as I am aware the 81% of salaries to Turnover was actually under the watch of Wilde, Hone and Crouch and he gace teh impression it was all Lowe. Also, in our first season of relegation fans were less than amused that Lowe went down the route of prudence and only brought in Fuller for £90k, in hindsight that was a smart move. Consolidation was the way forward Lowe was kicked out and off the back of promised and unrealised investment a decision was made to go for broke without IMO consideration for the consequences. Lowe mismanaged our final year in the Premiership but that didn't have to lead to where we are today.

Was Lowe the deadweight and is the future bright Tame? I fear we are heading the way of Luton. Many lifelong fans gave up when we had a real chance of survival so who's the baddie? I'm just numb as NickH mentioned or increasingly apathetic hearing about the joys of administration and getting rid of the vermin. The 15,000 vermin or staunchly loyal fans who have backed this club to the hilt and now being asked to give more. I hope that Fry comes up with a new buyer, otherwise please explain why the club won't confirm how much they need in donations and how much they still need to go to reach their target? Do you think they actually know?

Oh yes, steadfast and loyal but are you and can I align myself with those who largely brought this on themselves.

Is he doing a sponsored phone in to Radio Hampshire? How long will it take TT to get David Armstrong to say: a) something positive or b) 'I can't comment as that never happended to me in my playing days' or c) get a word in

The Tornado of anger has given way to the gentle breeze of apathy. Prefer the tornado.

All about prevention Trousers because sometimes the cure proves to be ineffective. Withholding before = cure, Withholding now = you've done your best to prevent the illness and find a cure and now it maybe time to switch off the life support.

Le Tissier was a legend on the pitch and now he is a soccer pundit. I often don't agree with him when he is on Sky and I am not going to let what he did on the pitch could my judgement when he comments on our club. Same applies to anyone else. Great player doesn't mean he has all the answers now and shouldn't be challenged if you disagree. It was hardly a slagging off anyway. Head held high but not in the clouds like yours Stanley.

Didn't say i hated him just don't consider his comments were appropriate or useful on the radio this morning. I note with interest you don't mention how how I applauded Crouch's diplomatic comments on TV yesterday. People regardless of repuation can still be criticised and their comments questioned. In fact its probably more important to quiz those individuals trading off their image IMO.

Apparently got tickets for a Manilow gig. Music and fashion and all that! Oh + concerned about his carbon footprint and the fact Radio Hampshire will need to end thier phone in 15 minutes early for lack of feel good material.

Insomniacs

Duncan, This is a tough one. We as supporters have been sold short over the past 3 years but half of those old Premier league gates have been stoical and steadfast in their unstintlng support of the club. I am proud to say I have been one of them and a buyer of multiple season tickets. However, a bit like NickH when he replied to you, I to feel numb partly because of the FL's timing and partly because I find myself feeling little if any sympathy for those fan's who chose to stay away or worse revelled in the prospect of administration. I have listened to many media reports and even on Solent this morning we had fans telling Julian Clegg that they have stayed away this season because they decided it wasn't working, is it working now? Clive Foley on SSN yesterday was spitting bile for Lowe within the first few words and Le Tissier wasn't much better on Solent this morning more intent on getting out the hatchet than promoting unity. Leon Crouch and Nick Illingsworth have surprisingly (the former at least) showed some sense of diplomacy with Crouch refusing and rightly so to discuss blame at this stage and Illingsworth showing balance and understanding but is often ridiculed, why? He is by a country mile the best in communicating to the media and very fair in his assessment. IMO Clive Foley sounded like a male version of Vicky Pollard on SSN talking about the points deduction. 'Yeah but no but, Yeah but no but, Lowe's fault'! Why Duncan should all these fans go and buy these tickets when fan organisations, club celebrities and forum members cannot unite. To be honest I have as much respect for those fans who stayed away as I do for a Portsmouth fans because sub-consciously or otherwise they wished for the same thing, the collapse of SFC. All these people like Crouch, le Tissier , McMenemy and so on must have known the consequences of maintaining an average gate of 16,500 and to hear their bleating and babbling now, well I am running out of radios. It's after-timing in the extreme. Lets not confuse this with the Lowe factor, its acknowledging or understanding how committed our fan base actually is and establish if this season will be repeated when we run the risk of starting off in League 2 in August 2010. What happens if the new consortium come in and is headed up by a character even more divisive than Lowe? Fan's wishing for administration part deux? Perhaps I could get a bit more motivated if our beloved club could actually admit how much they need in donations and Blue Peter style post it on the website as a thermometer and show how hot or cold our donations have been to date and how far to go. The apathy that pervades the fans is as acute and reflected in the club communications today IMO as it was 2 months and probably because it's condition 'frantic'. Duncan. true Saints fan recognised the critical nature of the situation back in August and so it's useless making an appeal to them as they have their STs or bought their tickets already. I cannot bring myself to donate anymore until the players especially those on £4k pw or more take a 50% paycut until the new owner is installed. The excuse is they are worried about their future well I think its time to show it and do something to preserve thier future. Why is the club not helping itself by doing something about this issue immediately? We have a fragmented fanbase and in places a very shallow one and if we disappear overnight there will be much gnashing of teeth and wailing. The club will be resurrected , maybe but judging by all these supporters groups and divided opinion we will probably end up with two clubs in the bowels of non-league football. Call to arms? Which side do people run to? Cue all the abuse now about it's the fans fault, well sorry its largely true and if the post relegation has been tough its going to get a lot tougher. So if as Duncan suggests you are a True Saints fan then its time to seek some redemption if not then we'll try and do it the hard way but please keep your distance in future. To the rest of us the Burnley game is only the start and if Oldham, Hartlepool and Brentford don't do it for you next season then don't kid yoursleves and more importantly us and the new owners.