Nineteen Canteen

The Gypsy Kings?

We'll walk league 2 in August 2010 despite the presence of Eastleigh.

Have to say that has been my problem with the donations all along and the club have been very weak in not addressing player's salaries. No problem in contributing to those who work hard behind the scenes earning a normal working wage or I suspect in same cases on or near the minimum wage, but the thought of filling a bucket with 1200 tenners so Skacel can be paid is weekly wage is frankly a disgrace. There are very few players in that squad that i would like to see run out for us next season and none of the bigger earners because since administration they have done very little to convince me how much this club and its fans mean to them.

Careful Um, it was one sentence edited from one post. You might get yourself a reputation for distorting reality to make you look better than you are. At least I know I didn't send you a pm but if I had you would be part of a very select and knowledgeable group from which I have learned a lot. (The majority of that small group disagree with my views) There are some very good people on this forum and I consider myself lucky to be afforded the occassional opportunity of discussing with them some issues off the record. Its just a handful mind and you'd be surprised who I listen to and can be influenced by but it is from the whole spectrum. Those who overdose on smileys and cartoons to try and emphasise a point need not apply. Its all about perception mate and it maybe time for you to manage how you are perceived.

Um thanks for confirming this, I thought I may have sent you one over block 10 gate to try and discuss or apologise but it must have been between SG and myself when I was being warned over the whole issue. I did offer my apologies through SG and offered to make them direct but didn't get a response. To be honest though I have never quite understood how I got that wrong but have kept an open mind because of your initial posts, long before my infraction, detailing what happened and location and same row and those around me at the time telling someone called Steve to sit down, as if they knew of him but not as an acquaintance or friend. Despite Exit2's confirmation that you were in block 4 nothing would surprise me but for the time being I consider we were both a victim of a strange coincidence and mistaken identity and I should never have read your posts. Would like to meet you one day just so I can get rid of my nagging doubts if nothing else. Copying and pasting pm's onto a public forum? I'm surprised a man of your integrity even asks the question and I don't suppose Sundance would be to impressed either. Trouble is Um you have a track record of cutting and pasting public posts to take comments out of their original context to suit your own agenda or in attempt to belittle or rubbish a poster who has made some well founded and reasonable comments that you don't like or can't debate and so go out to discredit their integrity or balance IMO. So pasting pms whoever wrote them probably not a good idea. How many pm's did Sundance send you as you give the impression he was quite prolific?

I think its usual for the less well known bands to play their sets at the more unpopular times and in this case compete with the bouncy castle and penalty shoot out. I wonder when they start booking the evening acts?

Which one gets me out of town on the 23rd the quickest? If things don't go well do you have an alternative venue? How about the Haunch of Venison in Salisbury?

Just the one r in irony though.

When it comes down to pointing out speling erors then the barrel is being well and truly scraped. I think better than I can type therefore I am. Try and comment on the views I am trying to express in my post old boy and don't be so haughty unless you start signing off with a 'see me' in red ink.

Yes I am supporing a boycott of donations a situation brought on by those who championed and/or supported a boycott all season therefore denying the club the revenue and the ability to survive without handouts including those in a position who can ill afford the contribution. I would respond to all of your second paragraph but I have no idea what you are trying to say. Anyway my views on McMenemy have been well documented and the role he could have played after his management days but through his own misguided agenda chose not to. It's not as though he didn't have an excellent example to follow by following Ted Bates or one of the great ambassadors for football and his club Bobby Charlton. IMO Lawrie McMenemy always knows what buttons to press but it's the motivation for pressing them that has bothered me when he returned to the club and that is just a personal observation. Again, it's just an opinion based on listening to him in the media or reading his articles that he has been counterproductive to the club's progression and at times trying to undermine those who are doing all they can to act in the best interests of the club. IMO no one rates Lawrie McMenemy more highly than Lawrie McMenemy and who does that remind you of?

Nick I refer you to post 403 and Daren's first and as usual unsolicted abusive response to one of my posts followed by the rest of the usual suspects. Daren and Um may have once been respected posters but have damaged their own reputations by their persistent and peevish crusades against me and I can only conclude it's because they can't argue against some of the points I raise. Nick as I have discussed with you recently i am not here to curry favour with the alledged masses but merely to ask questions and encourage comment and so with respect I will not keep away from conflict when the flak starts to fly in my direction. Although, I can appreciate how tiresome it is to read posts that are nothing more than me having to trade or respond to insults with these two 'charcaters'. In fact I gave up with Um a while ago not least because of his persistent lies about pm's. I can barely remember sending him 1 maybe 2 and yet he would have you believe I am sending him abusive pms all the time! I think he is secretly proud of the attention although I am more than a little hurt he has deleted it. The man clearly has a problem and so does Daren and neither should dish it out as they have done and not expect a little friendly comment in return. Daren is partcularly easy to wind in and more sensitive than many actresses. At least in Um's defence he does have some useful facts and if you need anything in the historical knowledge department just challenge his thinking and he'll trot off and find the info without you having to do the work. A nice compliant accountant type.

Sorry for the misunderstanding I didn't realise it was being so professionally organised. Will the programme be ghost written or do you have a different off-forum style? Leg humped by a poodle? Unusual analogy, does it happen to you often, dogs being aroused in your presence? Or is poodle a metaphor for something else that likes to worship at your altar?

That may be the case and perhaps mirrors Daren's venture as impresario elect? Who knows.

JB that is exactly my point. The players have not to my knowledge taken a paycut a deferral though admirable doesn't actually help in the long term and the club have never advised how these monies collected will be put to good use. I would gladly contribute to those at risk of losing their 2k a month and less but contributing to someone raking in over 20 times that amount and more I personally find it obscene. I have asked the club to explain what they have done to address players wages and not surprisingly I have not received a reply. There are countless examples of employess taking forced or voluntary paycuts in other industries so what makes footballers so precious that they can't follow suit when times are tough for their club? Part of the problem is that over the past 3 years we have IMO employed too many overpaid mercenaries on the pitch and whilst there are obvious examples who don't deserve that tag IMO the majority past and present since 2006/2007 do. Until there is a clear directive from the club as to where donations are being targetted I won't donate a penny so some overpaid and overweight, half-ar5sed contributor of a player can stick £80 of fuel in their oversized 4x4. I have asked for this information but nothing and so have to satisfy myself that I have supported this club through thick and thin regardless of chairmen, performances or opposition and spent thousands of my diminishing disposable income on multiple ST purchases every season and new kits and tracksuits in the mega store for all the 'little Saints' in my family. Donations shouldn't really be required should they John and if they are now doesn't make it right, does it? My conscience is clear so let those who exacerbated the problem do their bit along with those fantastic fans who haven't deserted the club in the run up to administration and still doing it despite any bitterness they may be feeling. Those fans have my sincere admiration but I cannot blindly support their efforts either when it does feel like cash is simply being flushed away down one big black hole. If the club is one the verge of financial collapse taking a few well meaning fans down the same route is pointless and irresponsible IMO and I do not understand why they couldn't simply have said 'Blue Peter' style we need to raise x amount and this is our progress to date, instead of their simplistic comments of 'thank you but still more is needed'.

Daren shouldn't you be organising band practice?

I haven't contributed to its downfall if that helps.

Good idea Nick but are we sure Mr McMenemy hasn't got copyright over the use of his name?

Hypo any monies raised I suspect have been spent or will be rolled up to the holding company afterall the club I assume is an asset of the holding company. Either way that money contributed will not be coming back so a few fans can go hire a council pitch and and buy a few balls and some kits.

Eke out a few more contributions from the gulliable fans to ensure the players get paid?

I think the many little nuggets from Crouch contained in this piece regarding the appointment of D&G sums up the difference between being positive and having a grip on the reality of a situation. Do you think he wrote Lowe's welcome speech for the dutch duo? In any event IMO it has to be a concern that L&L have not got kept a respectable distance. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=9707

Hypo I would like to contibute to your question if I may. My personal opinion of Weston is that he is willing to appreciate there are two sides to any argument and by taking on board comments from perhaps the other side of the fence from which he is standing helps him to be that more sensible and rounded poster you refer to. If I am vitriolic its almost always in response to abuse from others and I think its important some of us at least play the role of devils advocate otherwise the same familiar traps will be there for us to fall into in the future. Many fans of this club have had one sole objective without any consideration to the future once the objective was achieved. Its now been IMO royally screwed up twice in 3 years and we can only hope it's not 3rd time unlucky as we get blindsided whilst many of you enjoy the dance on the grave of Lowe's tenure. Weston and I don't agree on much but I personally respect his views and appreciate the fact he has at least listened to mine and hopefully given them consideration no matter how badly judged you consider them to be. Unfortunately, I am not that blessed with great writing skills and wish I could describe my opinion and concerns better than I do but I don't post just to get plaudits and be one of the gang so I guess it doesn't matter. (Leave that to more eminient fans than myself) One thing Weston and I agreed upon earlier in the year was that administration would be a disaster for the club made worse by the state of the economy and the credit crunch. The fact we are relying on handouts and kids chucking their pennies in buckets does not feel me with pride or passion but reserved and poignant that many of us were blinded by alledged popular thinking and decided to commit an act that bordered corporate euthanasia. Of course Mr McMenemy calls them the loyal fringe and that maybe as ridiculous as calling them the lunatic fringe but almost certainly they were stupidly naive and in some case incredibly self-important not to appreciate the consequences of their actions. We were referred to earlier as a big club. Even with a hated chairman big club's can pull in an average crowd well over 17,000. We are a club that is as delusional about its status as many of its fans. 125 years next year and how many in the top flight? Somewhere between 35-40? Jonah, Frank's Cousin and a few others can talk about this stuff much better than me but I don't so much defend Lowe but support the requirement for a much needed sense of perspective and beware of the enemy within.

Very eloquent, misguided and more importantly, misdirected. Is there such a thing as keyboard rage? The lowest of the lowe, very good, nice play on words.

That'll be Tamesaint