Nineteen Canteen

Prospective owners disembarking now. We are looking less and less an attractive opposition. Start next season in L1 with -10 a near certainty, massive debts to repay, not to mention deferred salaries and we won't to increase our costs by going down the leagal route to tackle the FL? IMO that is total folly and wasting money on a technicality, can companies apply for LegaL Aid? Ramp up the costs before a buyout and we may get slapped with more point penalities for not clearing our debts in full and then where are we heading if we don't get there sooner. Nick Illingsworth on Sky likened our demise to the Titanic and it was an interesting and relevant analogy because many thought this club was still a Premiership club. BTW I thought Nick was very measured in his response and was a credit to the fans whereas Clive Foley simply represented everything that is wrong about the club. WTF is Clive Foley, launching into an embarrassing Lowe tirade in answering the first question. The presenters face spoke a thousand words if not only two. SISA IMO you are a disgrace and insult the club's fans by even suggesting you are representative of the majority of their views.

Gordon I agree with you completely and you have to ask yourself why have the over £1k list anyway. So some with egos and agendas can point to how committed they are. Like you say we actually don't know if some famous and/or wealthy fans have already made donations but prefer not to go on the list and those individuals if they exist would have my total respect and reserve my suspicions to those who donate £1k and say 'will I be on the list'? If the club gave us a total of how much they have collected to date we would be able to gage if that 1k list is indictive or not of the overall total. To my mind the club is still being run as if it was a going concern and not the soup kitchen it is turning into and they need to report charitable donations, targets, concerns etc or are they paying lip service to a process that can't save them? It doesn't make sense IMO and when people like you and I agree with a degree of rationality then I think the problems are beyond saving IMO.

Frank if you're not involved with a supporters group you should be and usurping whoever is running it. Secondly, and more preferably you need to become the club's director of communications. Does anyone know why the club can't elaborate more on their plea ' but more STILL needs to be done to ensure the club's future'. It's now in bold text what next larger more stylish fonts. No one is listening at the club, which suggests only one thing to me. I had two pieces of junk mail this morning one for Alzheimers and one for Cancer Research should I split my donation to Saints between these two worthy causes. At least I won't be paying to support some footballers lavish lifestyle or worse throwing money at a cause that is without hope.

The football league as I understand it have a 'catch all' clause along the lines of not adhereing to the sporting spirit of the rules. IMO even the most blinkered Saints fan would have to acknowledge that our request for immunity from point penalties was not exactly in the spirit of the law as the holding company was in essence the club and effectively just pushing the club down a level of intercompany hierarchy. The league are not making it up that clause was there for a reason and rules on holding companies will be readdressed by them. Rules like laws evolve overtime and the only flying fur will probably be the rats fleeing the sinking ship.

Roger, did I hear a penny drop. Foxstone as the club is not in administration and being run by Jones and 'Dawn's Dad' I don't believe Fry can make the call or be shown to have influence over it's business can he? If he did isn't that exactly the evidence the Football League are looking for to confirm the club and SLH plc are essentially the same thing?

I agree but as I have been told before the club is not in administration so nothing to do with Fry and the club can do what they like. If that is not the case then Lord Mawhinney may call off the dogs and get out his red pen.

Roger I don't want o listen to Lowe, Crouch or anybody else who was involved with making the decisions at the club. I want to hear from the club direct even if they use an appointed member of staff not directly involved with the Finances. I then want some answer to the questions that Jay and I and others have raised. How much? By when? How long? What if? What else? and so on. If the club is beging like a tragic addict and needs money to feed its habit with no sight of recovery then in difficult times is that best for all concerned a stay of execution? On the otherhand if we knew exactly how much was needed and by when and how long that would last coupled with players salaries being reduced and other costs savings then we may start to be encouraged. Crouch's assurance the other day that donations are not going into a bottomless pit, well I'm afraid it feels exactly like that and as he is not involved with the club how would he know that anyway or was he just trying to convince himself? I'm not sure what your post is trying to say but it seems you are letting your opinion of me cloud the points raised if not by me but SaintJay and others. It seems I am more in with the rest of you than you thought Roger but the truth is of course I don't need your approval to buy my season tickets or to support my club let alone have an opinion that whilst not popular is nonetheless valid. Thanks anyway for your charity but hopefuly I'll still be let in on Saturday. BTW MPs have no place in private football clubs they should be looking after our public services and society in general and especially at the moment. The fact we have fragmented supporters groups run IMO by a few egos who enjoy the 'importance' of their role I am not interested because they don't speak for the fans when they IMO seem to collectively constitute less than 1% of the fan base. SISA it seems is made up of more officers than members, Sainst Trust do at least have Trust status but have failed to generate critical mass or anywhere near it and I personally would find it difficult to support anything that Um pahars has any involvement with past or present. SaveourSaints should have been managed by the Trust but decided to form a breakaway group, why fragment? Sorry I don't understand our fan groups anymore than I have tried to understand the way our club has been run for the past 3 seasons.

There are far more unifying figures within the club to deliver the message of the accountants, the club captain or Michael Svennson for starters and IMO their agendas would be less questionable. In trying to keep this to the thread topic the worst mistake the new owners could make would be reversion and to perpetuate divisive attitudes. IMO the latter is universally liked and respected by all and someone who can bridge the gap between the success of 2003 and to date without accusation or ill-feeling. It is people like him that we need to help revolutionise the club not those who may still be bitter or harbour grudges that could damage our future.

Good questions there and it's no good the club or Crouch saying simply that 'more STILL needs to be done to ensure the club's future' Tell us what exactly needs to be done as I personally cannot afford to throw money at a cause that I sense may already be lost. Convince me to donate not beg like some tragic addict and lets improve the reporting in terms of progress as Jay suggests.

You're in good company. Why can't the club make the appeal themselves instead of using an individual who has no stake whatsoever as he himself points out. If the club don't have a 'personality' left in the boardroom how about getting the club captain to make an appeal and whilst he is at it how about getting those players on £4k pw a more to take a 50% paycut (no deferral) until the end of the season. Below this amount there could be a graduated reduction. Will raise more than the fans can through donations, times are tough so why donate funds just so some players can fill the tanks of their over-sized transport to carry around their under-sized reputations. One player in particular springs to mind. The writing has been on the wall from the end of last season so Crouch's comments are IMO poorly timed at best and where was the high-visibility campaign in September when gates had obviously dropped off by 5k and the impact of that loss of revenue was clearly going to end up with only one result. I don't remember any 'call to arms' back then so what was his agenda then when others were trying to save the club? Lets face it like the rest of us he didn't exactly need a crystal ball. People turned their back on the club because of Lowe and IMO Crouch can be equally as divisive, so it is surprising the club cannot use a uniting figure like the club captain to deliver it's plea and perhaps at the same time expand on exactly where the money is needed. In terms of pecking order the very highest paid can afford to be the last on the list and the money needs to go where it is needed most but we don't know how it is being allocated and IMO I don't think the club do. To vague and to general and it feels like a donation is simply throwing your money away, a stay of execution at best and having an ex-chairman without any stake ask for funds doesn't ally my concerns that the donations will actually make a difference or be used in a targeted manner. Crouch IMO is in need of an oil change.

Involve Crouch or McMenemy in any capacity in addition to any other ex-director past or present. Lowe stirred up hate whilst Crouch and McMenemy IMO seem to stir up apathy. Why the Echo is given them a voice when they are no longer involved in the club is a mystery to me. Surely, a spokeperson from the club telling it how it is will generate a better reaction not a couple of yesterday's men.

Morph, Would you be able to confirm if the Salz consortium contains some old familiar faces potentially returning to roles within the club? IMO the new owners must revoluntionize and avoid any temptation to reversion. Therefore , I personally believe it is very important that any successful consortium installs new personnel (with no prior association to the club) in all senior positions. Would appreciate any information you can provide on this matter. Thanks NC

But if they had we wouldn't be on the brink. They supported the crap on offer last season so why not this? My views on that will never change.

I wonder if the Gaffer on behalf of Mike Osman comes on and lectures us about potentially libellous posts and seeking legal advice if these quotes can't be backed up? Or does the law not protect those people you just don't like very much?

Well done Toomer, I wasn't there as i hadn't been born but had I been born I would have been there. If we are going to go down the route of length of service before your opinion can be justified then you will alienate the future fans of this club.

You forgot his better quote about a prawn sandwich Phil. I have been told you cannot draw comparison with the world of retail as football is governed by different laws of economics. What is interesting is that many deemed the product to be crap and stayed away and are now donating their hard earned in addition to buying tickets to save said crap. Ergo perhaps being crap isn't such an issue or are we simply blessed with an extraordinary reactionary fan base?

Rabid unsupportive fans don't attend footballl matches. Sorry if I didn't make that clear but don't worry I have religiously been on of those 15,000 for many years.

Um If you think I am a troll please do yourself a favour and report me to Steve Grant who will no doubt assess my posts and take action accordingly. For your sake I hope in a way he bans me because you are making a bit of a sad and childish spectacle of yourself and I am beginning to wonder why you can't answer some of the reasonable issues I have raised. Remember you are not in school now and your audience won't simply accept what you say as being right. Are you still involved with the Saints Trust in a senior capacity? In any event its a bit sad given your conduct to a fellow fan and unable to debate some reasonable and important points.

Doesn't correlate with Lowe being incompetent. Just deserted by alledged supporters who believed they could walk away until Lowe found significant investement where plenty of others had failed previously. Oh and you didn't answer my question about how player sales would have gone done with those fans who enjoy a protest? Selling a player for a one off fee of £500k is one thing getting gates back to last years average of c21k would have generated around £130k per game. What action generates investment? Lowes fault was coming back because IMHO I don't see Crouch having managed much better. An average of 5,000 off the gate this season killed the club and its simple as that. No demand to support the club and supply and demand issues are endemic throughout the football league.

Care to comment on how sales of players would have gone down with the rabid unsupportive fans that were doing more damage to the club's reveune than a few one off sales.

Um, someone with an alternative opnion does not equal troll just as someone who believes they speak for a dominant group is not necessarily a bigot. I am not a Troll Um are you a bigot?

Do you mean the universe and everything in it or a few aggressive myopics who don't like having their stereotypical views challenged or accept others have an alternative view. Probably about 200 of you tops or about 1% of our average attendance. I guess, I can live with that Daren as I post to stand up for my opinion and not automatically take the stance that I have to post to try and be popular.

Duckhunter all this is fact is it because you don't seem to be addressing it as your opinion? Therefore, can you please confirm how you know this as it will put my own personal thoughts into a different perspective. I would like to know what players we could have sold and for how much and how any sales may have been received by an already reduced attendance. How were you privvy to the conversations between Barclays and the club at that time?

We all do Robbie so I'm surprised as you have one you need to point that out.

Sorry Dave, I wasn't there as I can't support charitable functions that alledgedly take more to cover expenses than they do to contribute to the cause. Dave do you have any idea how many attended 100, 250, 500, 1000, 5000? If you attended what is your best guess?