Nineteen Canteen

Exactly, or blind faith or plain ignorance or stupid denial and failure to grasp simple economics. The fact remains our next chairman could make Lowe look like a bigger champion of the club than the likes of OSM, Alpine and JustMike and all the other exponents of the meaningless and humourless one liners.

I think the moral of the story is be careful in asking for what you'd like as you may be forced to like what you get. The result is as irrelevant today as it is focussing your hatred on Lowe. The fact remains the players have lost their heart as a result of administration and our stay away fans are as responsible for that as much as Lowe. Crouch's game plan appeared to be based on hope for investment and so what we are seeing today we would have probably seen at Plymouth on Boxing day. Therefore, in the absence of any other viable candidate Lowe was our last hope and given the blind stupidity of some of our fans we are where we are. We can lose 10-0 or win 4-3 and it will mean nothing until far bigger issues are resolved.

That'll be nothing then OSM? A big fat zero and without an explanation as to why. People may not appreciate my opinions but I'm prepared to voice them and stand by them in the interest of debate and delivering the potential for other ideas to be be promoted through discussion. We can't achieve a sell out whilst the club started smoking and now burns so i doubt your spectacle will achieve much.

No Lawrie McMenemy was the cancer and IMO worked insidiuosly in the background to undermine perhaps unwittingly the foundation of this club. The disunity in the boardroom over the past 15 years has only served to promote that in the fanbase and a true ambassador would have done their best to ensure the cracks were repaired not forced open ever wider at every opportunity. Legend is a word that is over used and in the wrong context but maybe in this case McMenemy is a legend because much fact has been lost in sheer fable. To compare him with the likes of Fergie, Stein, Clough, Busby, Shankly is frankly like comparing Docker - P's nouveau riche taste in wine with my Tesco delivered Chiliean Cabernet. Docker p if you are opening a 2004 Lafite then you are at least 10 years ahead of it's expected maturity and even their most stunning vintages the 1982 and 1986 will still reward your patience. If you decide to open yours between 2010 and 2030 I would welcome the opportunity to sample perhaps one of the greatest wines ever made if not, they have with time the potential to be even greater than their great vintages from the 1950's. A man of your wasteful taste no doubt has some 82 and 86's in your cellar. I'm sure you are aware the wine is not bottled until up to 30 months in the barrell and even though the Chateau has accelerated the bottling process to eradicate any uneveness as a result of bottling over a period of 12 months it is still no excuse to be opening a 2004 unless you like to make a show of how you appear to be rich and ill-informed at the same time then you'd be better off going back to screw tops.

Close Tame, I was actually a Leeds fan but as an easily influenced 8 year old at the time of the cup win i got caught up in my families euphoria (My uncle was the main culprit) and on a tide of excitment vowed to support Saints despite everyone in my class being a Leeds or Man U fan. Trouble is as time passes McMenemy has even less of an impact for the fans of our future, except for any budding historians who are forced to have their picture taken by the Ted Bates statue. As his popularity wains then more important for him to make his words more impactful than his silence would have been. Lies (IMO) and cheap rhetoric is not exactly helping unite us all to the cause and this evening function of avid anti-Lowes and part heroes serves no purpose other than fragmenting the past from those responsible for supporting our future.

But not perhaps the most important thing Robbie, UNITY.

Don't understand your logic but then again never have. Is my ST money tainted with Loweness anymore than those who deliberately withheld their's. I'm not sure how I contributed to the club's downfall by supporting Lowe when in reality it was the need to cut costs drastically and ultimately raise revenue that did it for the club. Lowe, Crouch, Wilde and Hone have all played a role and I have supported them all with my patronage unlike others and as seats and then rows have become empty around us and then fill up for the big games what does that really tell us? We should have gone the Reading route when building a new stadium and add a new tier when it was fully justified. This club because of its size has been a victim of the money in the premeirship as much as anything else and pretty much for the last 10 years of our tenure we were punching above our weight without a Whelan, Walker, Ashley, Abramovich, Gibson etc etc. Sights need to be readdressed.

Times have been tough for over 18 months now. Pretty much since Hone let it be known that without investment we would be screwed and he was right. How many times since then have we packed SMS? The danger is we as fans keep believing the type of line you peddle but to the outside world the reality is somewhat different. I think you seriously need to start finding some realistic ground on which to stand and make your pitch.

Your conribution is as erudite as usual OSM. How much will you be pledging to the cause?

The question Steve is whether its our only option or our only viable option. Its not viable the figures don't stack up or reflect our past attendances given we would be in League 1 or making rapid headway towards it. If nothing else they need to appoint a leader a figurehead of real kudos and energy instead of some (with respect) faceless and unknown to many bloggers. Apart from tickets we have no idea of policy and yet they expect pledges? I'll pledge thousands today and a run a mile tomorrow if someone I mistrust or believe is inappropriate for the 'chairman' role is selected. Are there any regulatory issues with regard to this structure as it could be deemed a licence to actually take monies from the blind faithful for the thing to fail in the not to distant future. How safe is my investment? Where would my cash be held in the interim and how would I know if it has been segregated pending my investment? A concern many will have when they are scraping the barrell to invest. 3000 fans to provide £15m of Capital? Thats a chunky average investment unless they have some very wealthy benefactors willing to make up at least half of this amount. To be honest it would be better to align ourselves with the Sainst Trust because love them or loathe them at least they are established and at least know the pitfalls of some of the things SOS is trying to overcome. In fact not to unite with them is complete folly and questions the motives behind all this if its not so much 'fancentric' as egocentric'.

True ( I will never a support a derivative of Saints) but it may be time to acknowledge defeat and turn off the life support. Watching this unravel would me many times worse than witnessing the past 5 years and some gullible fans could lose money they could ill afford to lose. On another and less popular note I could not contribute to a cause knowing that I was likely joining a group whose membership would likely consist of people who helped contribute to the clubs downfall by staying away for whatever reason other than those non-footballing reasons that may affect us all from time to time, health, economy, family, etc. They talk of being able to raise £15m but all we needed over the past season and half again the season before was for about 5,000 fans to buy a ticket for home games for £26. That would have contributed £3m and in line with the cost cuts this season alone and about £1.5m the season before. That would have reduced Barclays exposure in half or more and whilst there is little value in lamenting the what ifs and if onlys it does augur well for this proposal. Even in desperate times I think £15m is a gross over statement of realistic expectations and is no more than a token gesture and by many of those who helped leave the stable door open in the first place. If this is the best we have in terms of a fallback plan or god forbid our only option, well Tame we both know where this is heading. Its a stay of execution and nothing else and for the sake of those gullible enough to waste their money and contribute then euthanasia is probably the best option for a once great club.

IMO the fanbase will never be united on a fan led takeover simply because of the diversity of opinion that exists. You are obviously very passionate about your proposal but I think you are letting it cloud your judgement with regard to it uniting the fanbase. The fanbase needs to unite under a bid that offers the best outcome for the club and that is not going to be a despearate last ditch buy out by the fans. A pledge today may not relect a cash contribution tomorrow and especially if you are asked to team up with a bid that is unpalatable with many fans. What is your expected fall out rate? Do we have any examples in the world of football where this has been done before with success? (Excluding any European clubs as cultures don't always commute) Given a choice I would take the last 5 years over fan ownership as I could see the infighting being more akin to a riot than recent boardroom skirmishes. To say it would require strong leadership skills is a massive understatement and the likliehood of a bank dealing with a group of say 5,000 private investors managing their own club through rose tinted glasses is difficult to comprehend. Can we see your business proposal based on your estimates with regard to pledges? You say you have done lots of number crunching and much debate and as a result have something. I'm hoping its more than what you have alluded to here because with respect I can't see how this is going to work assuming it comes down to you in the end. Who would be appointed CEO? FD? Board directors? There is nothing tangible here to assess so it has to be dismissed at the moment as regards to making a pledge let alone a cash injection. Who are you and Derry and what do you think qualifies you to head this up, other than it was your idea? Need to see a detailed proposal.

And yet I'm still here, no matter how rude and sick the patient the doctor has a duty to try and improve their condition. It remains a very salient point that IMO it is highly unlikely McMenemy was unaware how perilous the situation was and to come out and publicly say that in some misguided belief we will believe it is astounding. IMO I would not trust a single word the man says and he works the media to his advantage which is unfortunate given where we are today. Hopefully, the new owners will discard him as his rights as an ambassador for this club expired a long time ago.

And that gives him a licence to treat us as dumb fools who will accept his every word without question? Actually don't answer that I fear I already know the answer but look outside DP times change although you probably still have an Allegro on the drive and happy to accept your square steering wheel even after 33 years of subsequent innovation.

You appear to be the mug for swallowing McMenemy's (IMO) less than believable comment. Easy to write me off and get all clever with the name calling but I see you avoid the debate with regard to our diety with the slipping halo.

The point is McMenemy knew how bad the situation was IMO but I agree could do nothing about it. However, to tell us in a quote on the OS that he had no idea, given his apparently close ties with Crouch and no doubt other closely connected individuals, is frankly astounding and if you are happy being treated as a dumb fool good luck to you but IMO McMenemy needs to wise up and treat the fans with a little more respect.

Would be better than any local 'Faces'.

Lowe Memorabilia

Well I'm afraid you are naive at best and it matters because people like you and the lazy local media will rely on McMenemy to feed you a line on the situation when in that one quote he has proven himself to be full of sh1t. Do you believe Crouch knew, if so it's inconceivable IMO that he would not have told McMenemy.

Wes, I'm sure I read somewhere that there is one of those catch all 'reserve the right' clauses in the FL's rules, which basically would allow the FL to punish the club without having to apply any rules retrospectively if they felt we didn't act within the spirit of the rules. I don't recall teh exact wording but hopefully you catchmy drift and in this instacce we may have grounds to fight the decision on a legal basis but without a pot to p1ss in we may just have to open wide and take the medicine. I personally don't take any comfort from any other threatened legal action and penalised clubs undoubtedly will try it on if they can afford it. I think that 'we reserve the right to do what we like' clause will be our undoing and Malwhinney will find us guilty and deduct points under their get out of jail card whilst closing the loophole. He will be hammered in the media otherwise.

I don't know ask McMenemy, or read his quotes and convince yourself that you have good reason to believe him. I actually want balance and unity and when those who should know better start down that path then we can all move forwards in the meantime i am happy to point out what you selectively choose to avoid.

Do you believe McMenemy was completely unaware of the perilous situation? iF you do then you I'm afraid are as big a mug as me for believing supporting Lowe was the only way to get through this mess and back on an even keel at least without significant risk to the future of the club.

Recognise the work that must have gone into all this and all credit where it's due. Not surprisngly, its not something I can support having contributed thousands of pounds to the club's coffers over the years and to think we could have supported a cure whilst the patient was alive and under our care. I now find it very difficult to stand alongside those who support Derry whilst openly admitting they turned their backs on the club. At the moment I am hoping Duncan's known consortium comes through or backing any other worthy bid. If it comes to relying on SOS the way I see it the club will be liquidated and AFC Saints here we come - no thanks. Eastleigh, Basingstoke, Salisbury or Aldershot for me, but football will never quite be the same. Good luck with it Derry your efforts deserve recognition at least but we need to look to those fans who failed to renew ST's back in March last year before Lowe had returned and then those who jumped on the stay away band wagon. Its going to take a while to forgive them.

Quote from McMenemy - 'I was amazed when I found out the perilous situation the club was in'. AaaaRGH! Do me a favour McMenemy do you honestly expect us to believe you had no idea what was going on! No good trying to recoat yourself in teflon now and try some more point scoring, its too late, your reputation was tarnished along time ago. This whole evening deserves to be given a very wide berth by anyone interested in uniting the fan base. Failing that Osman the Comedian is an oxymoron, be warned. What about more recent employees like Benali or current players/coaches why are they not on the panel? Last thing we want is balance and this has the hallmarks of an anti-Lowe fest which will serve what purpose exactly?

If we sell Staplewood separately then presumably we are looking for an investor with a big garden? Big ask.