Clifford Nelson

Putting the conspiracy theories aside it seemed more that NA's backbone had been strengthen to go out with his best team in the best formation and to stop worrying about whether players will sulk or whether they should play because they cost a lot of money. I haven't got any arguments with his squad, which seems to be a common opinion. Having been quite outraged about the treatment meted out to Guly on this forum and on the terraces, I do admit that his performances for a long time haven't matched the promise he once showed. He doesn't deserve a place amongst the 18, and whether

Maybe we should all stop having opinions and close the forum? No, actually I don't think he knows more than me. His knowledge stopped developing when we all played with two strikers some 20 years ago. Good luck with your hero worship!

I struggle to understand how playing two strikers instead of one will stop our defence from leaking like a sieve. I glad, though, that there are a few like me who feels that DM contribute nothing of value to the Solent commentaries. "Money for old ropes" is the old saying. He and others should remember that he stayed up by the skin of his teeth when managing the team, and was duly sacked by Lawrie Mac for not being good enough. For those remembering him from his Youth Team days you will remember his constant bellowing at his players, but that was about all. He was gifted with a number of outstanding talents and didn't need to bless them with any of his "bring on another striker" for them to succeed. Good old uncle Dave....

Is the truth, maybe, that we were over performing last year, and that more players than we thought aren't up to it? The formation debate doesn't hold water. We could play 4--5-1 with three defensive midfielders if we want, but there seem to be other issues involved. Four at the back with two defensive midfielders should be plenty in whatever formation. NA's great strength is him keeping positive at all times, which does motivate people. For those who still believe in a "boot up the backside" motivational technique I would like you to produce the evidence. I am whittling down the argument and it seems like player quality may be the matter. We were all surprised last year, and it seemed that most would have been happy with mid table for another year in the CC. That would have given us an extra year to strengthen. Now we didn't have that, which probably makes a great difference. I don't want to see the end of NA. Much rather that NC thinks about getting an experienced, wise head in to support him. Somebody who has a history of well defended teams and maybe 4-3-3 behind him, who would like to see NA succeed. I haven't got a name in mind, but with NC's italian connections I'm sure it can be found. The whole idea of seeing one of the usual suspects becomeing manager here fills me with gloom. We need to do better than that.

The whole idea of introducing youth and inexperience into a dodgy defence is quite tragic. I didn't like the idea that a 20 year old with a handful of games from L2 should be goalkeeper behind a seriously leaking defence. However good prospects either Gazzaniga or Shaw, playing in a poorly functioning defence is not going to improve the. Instead they may have the worst experience of their lives and take months to recover confidence. It was a bad mistake not to sign anoher left back and a centreback, but now we have to live with the decisions we took. I wouldn't be too hopeful about the january window either, since it has proved to be a fairly poor pond to fish in over the last few years.

There is nothing bonkers in that. I've said through most of my life that I need to look at myself in the mirror every morning, and if I start flinching I'm no longer true to myself and I'm losing. I'm bloody rubbish at poetry, though, and feel inspired that we have a manager to can do that.

It might not have occurred to many, but NC will not be associated with anything from the clubs past except ancient history. Players, managers, coaches, with the exception of Dodd and Williams they don't play a part, because he doesn't want the "old" Saints back (you remember the one losing away at Shrewsbury?). but want to create a new and exciting Saints. Redknapp coming back in any capacity doesn't stand a chance. I don't even think that NA will get the sack. More likely that somebody may come in with extensive and successful experience of defense and 4-3-3, but at the end of their italian career and assist NA as Sporting Director or the likes for a year or two. Our club is looking long term. We will not start changing managers repeatedly, nor will we be fishing in the common old pond. I doubt very much that I'm wrong. NC might be many things, but just another same-same owner he isn't.

You won't be surprised that I agree with every word, Dave. It is a really skilful job to judge the need for openness against that of confidentiality. One of the more iditotic thing over many years is that many club owners feel the need for openness, gives the manager a vote of confidence whilst at the same time neotiating with his replacement. There must be honesty in the relationship instead of the spun statements by PR specialists, otherwise the rumours just keeps on proliferating, but coupled with the rightful cynicism of those paying for the seasonticket and being treated like idiots. If that is the alternative than I'm not sure that the current secret service isn't to prefer. Nevertheless it doesn't feel entirely respectful of the supporters.

I made the observation awhile ago, that to exclude ex-players, not to allow players back and not to ever refer to recent history was part of NC's strategy to get rid of the mindsets which had pervaded the club and eventually gotten us relegated to L1. It is hurting a few egos, which I can understand, and so is a chairman who has taken the role of the Sporting Director, which never got appointed, and has used his contacts in Italy to bring us a few players. I am not necessarily a fan,but I do appreciate that he doesn't appear in a track suit with a logo on it. He also doesn't appear in the media on too many occasion, and nor does he try to make a career as a suit at the FA. Did I forget to mention that he has had some considerable success? The same as many of the fans old players find it difficult to accept the changes. Personally I think I can get used to it.

Changing formation to accommodate Rodrigues was not a good idea and showed surprising lack of conviction from NA. Scoring too few goals hasn't been our problem. Taking a man out of midfield to achieve this accommodation was rather suicidal. We will be chewed up in the middle of the park unless we compete there. However you convince yourself that we must play with two strikers you can't do it without weakening the team elsewhere. And if you weaken midfield you expose your CBs. We have had poorly defending FBs throughout the season, apart from that Fox isn't up to it. He defended poorly in the CC as well. To try Ben Reeves in that role isn't far fetched. He used to play LB before we tried him in midfield. With only Luke Shaw as back up it's thin to say the least. I'm not terribly disappointed for losing at Everton away when they're at their best, but with NA not sticking to his conviction about how the game should be played.

It would be interesting to know how we've scouted him, since we clearly went for him immediately there were troubles with Butland. Gazzaniga looks very promising, not least because he seems to have the personality to go with the job. There is no need to be disrespectful to Kelvin because of it. His carer will come to a natural end soon enough, but he will still appear this season, maybe more than people think,

Second half is as good as I've seen us play for many a good year! Ramirez is worth every penny and is what whe have been looking for for a long time, a proper no. 10. When he realised what the players around him were all about he played to all their strengths and anticipated every move. His vision was awesome, and I don't mean to hype it. Incredible! Ricky came to his right again and looked like the top class striker we know that we've got. Lallana played as well as ever I've seen him, and if we can stop experimenting with him in central roles (because he isn't a central playmaker) he will be fine. Even Puncheon managed a number of end products and looked better than I've seen before. Schneiderlin is growing all the time and let's not forget what a good player we've bought in Davis. Solid, comes to mind. Maya was also a pleasamt acquaintance, with a calm and fluid action and keen to calm down anybody who needed it - note his quiet ten seconds with Puncheon after the goal. There is more than enough talent in this team to play PL football, and I can't imagine that we will have any real problems with the rest of the season. NA should also have credit for shuffling the 4-3-3 formation by pushing the central midfielder high up behind Ricky for a 4-2-1-3, or it you like int in orthodox fashion, a 4-4-1-1. We look good like this. With others I'm accepting that Fox isn't a PL full back and needs to be replaced in the January window if possible. Clyne on the left made a real difference.

Anybody thinking that NC would appoint 'arry has got no idea about the workings or our chairman. So there are really two questions involved: Would I want him? And do I think he might be appointed? - No and no! If I have judged NC anywhere near right there will be no threats to NA staying here. More likely than that if in a tight spot might be to bring somebody extremely experienced in to support our Nige, maybe in a directorial role, but it will have to be a team player and I can't think of anybody to fit that bill.

I've said it before and I say it again: The problem is the lack of end product, whether tackle, cross, pass or shot. Sometimes he still looks good, sometimes bad, but I fail to see that this is the issue. If the crosses rain into the box and the passes go to a saints player I'll forgive him even if he looks bad. Whoops, nearly forgot. He has improved by not keeping on turning around to do the player he's just done a second time around. It was enough of that before this season.

Instead of judging the fleeting glimpse of him I checked what's on Youtube, and had a good look at what he did for Young Boys as well as Maccabi Tel Aviv earlier in his career. He is predominantly right footed but has got a very good left peg as well. He likes moving in from the right as well as from the left and can both poach and create his own opportunities. He also appeared wide, both right and left and looked very useful as a provider. He looks quality and shouldn't have any problems in playing either on the right or the left of a front three. It looked as if that is what he is used to. I don't know why you guys seems hung up on the right or left of the front three being wingers. Try to imagine what an inside right or left was once upon a time. The width will be provided by the fullbacks and to a degree by Lallana, who still looks like his best position is based wide left, moving inwards and creating space for the left back.

The last interview with him on Saints Player confirmed my suspicion that he wasn't happy to have to compete for a place. Instead he looked and sounded dour. I fear it was a complete shift of pond size for Billy the fish, and it made him uncomfortable. It's a pity, because he was a genuine operator in the box, which I think made him unique in the squad. Nevertheless, you want 25 eager and enthusiastic character on the training ground. The opposite is contagious and the precursor to doom. Emmanuel seems in comparison to be a really positive chap.

It must mean something that my first click is now for the Echo where the main news can be read quickly and then follow up with the OS to get more details if necessary. A complete turn around from before. No, I'm not getting used to it, it is just too poor for that. So poor indeed so that the club ought to look into an immediate re-designer. The contracts involved in this between the club, the league and the provider couldn't allow for such a poor product to have to be accepted.

Quite a few here on the forum who can't wait for the return of 4-4-2, and Dave Merrington on Radio Solent, amongst others. Surely you haven't missed them all?

4-4-2 isn't a form of 4-3-3, like playing one today, the other tomorrow. 4-3-3 is a more flexible form of basic formation. The variety considered most offensive of the variations are 4-2-3-1. That will allow somebody to play "in the hole", where many want to see Lallana, and where I have suggested could be perfect for Lambert. The most similar to 4-4-2 is 4-5-1. I will find it very surprising if we suddenly turn up with ye olde 4-4-2 again since it would show that NA has lost his nerve. I'm trying to read what is in the mind of NC and NA and the talk about the Southampton Way. The way I understand it is a cutting edge modern football. I just can't see how that could be combined with a return to the structure of yesteryear. It seems a little bit strange that the management is happier with modernity than the fans. Can't we just embrace this brave, new world, as better than the old one? We don't really remember the old 4-4-2 merchants with fondness, do we? Branfoot, Jones, Burley.....

There is somebody in the forum who got a div 4 Meon valley team play 4-2-3-1 by saying it was 4-4-2. That is probably as far flexibility as one could want, Dave. I'd be flabbergasted if we haven't got the players to play some of the 4-3-3 varieties and therefore be forced to play 4-4-2. I believe that the big issue isn't that, but the notion of not playing a pair of strikers. It's the Dave Merrington analysis of football, which always suggests a solution of "send on another striker". If we are to make an impact in the PL we must be flexible and forward looking, and sticking to th tried and trusted just isn't going to cut it.

Why should the abandoning of 4-4-2 have to be an order from above or be viewed as some kind of betrayal of some ancient pinciples? Everybody needs to be aware that basic formations have evolved over the last 100 years. You ould equally think that 4-4-2 betrayed 4-2-4, which in turned betrayed WM, etc. The modern world of top football plays variations of 4-3-3. Blackore's idea that we are copying it from Barca is both ill informed and disregards reality. 4-4-2 is still predominantly played in L1 nd 2 and in the CCC, because they aren't mainly managed by forward looking and successful managers. Instead they are plowing on with an eye in the past. Players we recruit from those leagues will therefore be used to that way of playing. But we are recruiting them because we think that they will be good enough for the PL. If they are they will also be good enough to play progressiv football, like they do a lot in the PL. We are not in the lower divisions anymore, so let's not play as if we were. NA seems forward looking enough for me to learn from and play like the best, so why would he have to be told by the Chairman? Can we start moing into the 21st century now?

The difference between 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 isn't in the numbers, but in the flexibility. NA found quickly that nearly the only thing he could do was to shunt the two CMs into a diamond or not. With a basic 4-3-3 you can play a large number of ways without having to change formation. If we believe that highly paid, professional players with the ambition to play in the PL finds this too difficult the answer is not in the system. Yesterday I found the difference laid in the speed Udinese changed from defense to attack or from right to left, etc. In comparison we often looked plodding. They also seldom mislaid a pass, which we too frequently do. Their thinking and reactions seemed to be that half- or quarter second faster than us. As for the players I'm stuck with some niggles: Why did Lallana see so little of the ball in the first half. Players like him needs to be used and needs to be given the ball. Puncheon is still showing what was my major worry from the beginning, i.e. the lack of end product. How many crosses did he actually get in? And when he shot it was rather feeble. Chaplow, so admirable in his high work rate, cannot pass and shoot and therefore needs to be used as a simple breaker-upper of the game.Win the ball and give it to Lallana could be a good and simple rule to play to. Let's give up on the idea of being a wide man. Our biggest challenge to any system is our strikers. I think we need to consider playing Lambert at no 10 with maybe Sharp in front of him. He is much more effective in that position, maybe because he started life as a midfielder. The 10 position is crucial to success and apart from Lambert I can only really see Guly in that role. Lallana wants to do to much, and middle of the park in the front third isn't the place to do it. You need to control the ball and move it fast and accurate as a play maker, so why not play Lambert there. The Swedes played Ibrahimovich there, and he is as much a striker as Lambert.

I think the confusion might be about that Dickson was Brentford's Player of the Year when we bought him. As for the other comments here I wouldn't be surprised to see some pruning in the midfield department. Schneiderlin, Hammond, Davies, Cork, Chaplow, Lallana, Ward-Prowse, Chambers, Reeves... That looks like a lot of players to fill what is essentially three places. In NA's formation there is room for one defensive (Schneiderlin, Hammond) and two others. We seem to have an awful lot of others. If we discard Lalland (out of the question to sell), and Davies (we've just bought him), and Ward-Prowse and Chambers (they've just been promoted to the first team squad), there might be question marks around Cork, Chaplow and Reeves. SDR, in spite of our willing him on to do well, seems to completely have lost confidence, and he can't get a start to save his life. Doesn't look promising for his future career with us. Guly is another story. I watched him against Wolves and thought: "Well, his critics won't have much to complain about this time." I thought it a very credible performance. And then the entire choir of the usual suspects starts singing the same old whinging song. I would dearly love to find out what it is that is going on psychologically with these people who are unable to judge a Guly performance with any resemblance of objectivity. It's tiresome.

Anybody who is trying to include new demands after a deal is done, whether with us or the other club, is struggling with business ethic and therefore general honesty. That means tha whatever happened to Vitesse this time will happen to us in the future. The same thing happened to the CH we were about to sign last year. They were dishonest and overplayed their hand. We don't want that here, and it is clear as daylight that it is NC's opinion. This thread can be closed, because Butner will never play for Saints.

Anybody who is trying to include new demands after a deal is done, whether with us or the other club, is struggling with business ethic and therefore general honesty. That means tha whatever happened to Vitesse this time will happen to us in the future. The same thing happened to the CH we were about to sign last year. They were dishonest and overplayed their hand. We don't want that here, and it is clear as daylight that it is NC's opinion. This thread can be closed, because Butner will never play for Saints.