Saint86

Hard to disagree. I'm curious to know what our wages are like. If we go down then we obviously lose significant money short term. But against it we've shipped out so many senior players on large wages now, some that are left will likely leave regardless next few years? (salisu / kwp /Stu armstrong)? The promising youngsters were all signed fairly cheaply, are on long contracts, and I suspect are in relatively low wages - they'll be the first team next season - regardless of league... Plus I reckon jwp will still be here. So financially, could we cover the income drop by selling some of the senior players knowing that if we get promoted, the long term business plan is to sell the kids for a profit - which won't change? And ofc we get parachute payments. So is there some kind of scenario where SR think we're cleverly cushioned from relagation?

Personally, I didn't think it was that likely when I first started to think about it, but then a prominent itk on here liked a comment suggesting that it's from SR, and it's something I pondered a bit more since. So could be nothing, but my general musings; Frankly it is just weird that Ralph (basically a career 4-2-2-2 high line high press fanatic) changed to the 5 at the back and extensively ran with it in pre season (even though it clearly wasn't working). He then stuck with it for all of 45min of competitive football - its surely pretty weird for a mananger to so quickly abandon the entire pre season approach like that? Its also weird that this tactic is at odds with the club's attacking / pressing ethos (which ralph is largely credited with implementing at all age levels over lockdown / project reatart), plus we've lost a lot of backroom staff related to the academy / coaching etc under SR. Also our transfer policy this summer re cb's and restructuring for 5 at the back. Maybe that was all on Ralph (we'll likely never know but I doubt it personally). So then okay, they sacked Ralph, they could then go out and get any mananger that they wanted, one that you would imagine is comfortable playing a formation and style practiced at all levels of the club and which the players are familiar with... Nope, that didn't happen, instead we've specifically gone out and spent significant funds on the lesser spotted Nathan Jones, who seemingly plays 5-2-3 with direct / long ball tactics, and instead of a high press and ball recovery, seems to stand off, let's the other team have the ball, and targets nearer 25% possession each game.... And we're again seemingly after CB's this window. Whatever the reason, it's a notable change in direction after the summer of SR taking charge starting to ring (almost constantly ongoing) changes, and spending a significant amount of money to restructure the team no? Plus right now with Jones, we're using up valuable "winnable" games to practice a formation that the players are certainly not used to. Anyway, probably all just circumstantial and reading too much into all the changes that are going on. And there are bigger issues right now than what formation we play (hmm, well maybe) 😅. Whether it ends up being a good or bad change in direction?... Hopefully it works this year and we go strength to strength (only time will tell I guess). The fact remains though - this is a significant change in approach for the club and one that ties in with the overall restructuring... if it didn't come from Ralph - where did it come from?

I may or may not have wanted openda 😅 I don't really get the mara signing, don't seem to be giving him much opportunity and we could not afford to waste that money on a player that wouldn't help us this season sadly. Not saying I don't think he can be a good player - but we've not had a chance to see it, which means we've basically spent £12M on a striker for the reserves 😕

Openda continues his good season in ligue 1 with lens - scoring to lead PSG 2-1 atm. Available for £5-10M this summer... No excuse for the failure to get a good attacker this summer. Edit - now 3-1 (goal and assist), he made a good move, 2nd in ligue 1 and likely to be playing champions league and with a bigger club likely to swoop in in the future.

Can't agree on jwp at all, but ofc you are welcome to the oppion and it's interesting to hear it. For me he's having to play with very little support in CM, and with dross in front of him. Despite that, he's still dictating a lot of our plays, with some great diagonals and through balls recently even - issue is he's covering so much ground, playing deeper, and has limited movement / space / quality to hit in front of him. A couple of good examples of good through balls were evident vs fulham (to put edozie through on goal from the wide position where he was then narrowly beaten out by the defenders) - a fully grown 22-23 year old athlete gets an extra yard of apce / strength to score those... I don't think enough of his detractors notice these plays personally, they just get lost in the general malaise / lack of quality from our attacker's re doing anything meaningful with them... Or more to the point, people remember the horrendous misses and not the passes that create that chance. Anyway, its an interesting oppinion on him ofc, I just don't think we desperately need a jwp replacement at this point in time. By the point that becomes a priority we will have a very tidy side - or he'll be in his mid 30's... I still remain glad we've got a player like him in the side, and one who is so committed to the club.

What? 😅 It is not going to be a 4-3-3 under SR for starters. We replaced the coaching setup, signed players for, and seemingly tried to get Ralph to switch to 5 at the back in the summer. Then we hired a new mananger who plays 5 at the back. If there was any interest in 4-3-3 I'm not seeing it, to me the "playbook" (and 4-2-2-2 or 4-3-3 high press/turnover and possession based football) is dead in the water. But even if it was a midfield 3, a trio of JWP, lavia, and stu Armstrong would be fine for a starting 11 - the issue is we have no cover for lavia at CDM. Your post seems to imply that JWP needs replacing as a CM... He is frankly out best player even now? 🙄 Stuart Armstrong is not a winger, so not sure if thats a typo and you meant adam Armstrong? Whereas for Adam Armstrong and/or Che Adams as attacker's, the statement of "or new signing", is not strong enough by any measure - we absolutely HAVE to sign a striker who can finish the chances we create... And a new winger is also required. So regardless of formation, we need a striker, a CDM, and if possible a good winger. span widget

It won't matter sadly. Lose to forest and we're certainly down. Heads would well and trully go. New manager bounce though...

Ralph didn't have to go, he needed a striker who could score and cdm cover in the summer... We were losing/drawing key games by fine margins under Ralph - despite having to gel a young squad, having played all the best teams, and having had key injuries to abk, lavia, kwp, and Livramento.... If we had had Ralph with a good striker, a 5 week break, and a fit squad, then we'd have got the points required this January. It's a huge failure by the board and recruitment teams. Instead we've hired a manager far shitter than Ralph. But it's crazy how are fans can continue to bemoan the quality of players we have, and yet ignore that Ralph was actually performing a borderline miracle keeping us in touch despite the injuries and lack of quality. He never had ings replaced, and then no replacement for broja. This summer we basically left him with Ely, aribo, Armstrong, Adams, and edozie - with which to try and score goals (newsflash they can't) and stay competitive. And against that, ABK, lavia, kwp and Livramento were all out injured on the defensive side of the team... The boo boys wanted him gone, they ignored the performances he had actually been getting and any mitigations that go with it, and they assured everyone we couldn't get a worse manager than Ralph... But hey, game stats and analysis doesn't matter, all that matters is the win rate... 🙄 Despite the signs that we were very nearly there even with the injuries. And now we're definetly looking at a grim 2023. But I'd suggest no team in the league has a worse attack / midfield than saints. And when you pair that the injuries at the back and the fact we'd played all the best teams, it's a damn miracle we weren't rock bottom. But some fans seemingly thought we should be comfortably mid table (or perhaps even higher) - I mean he had to be way off to justify that atmosphere, the chants, and the sacking... 🤣🙄 Absolute car crash from SR, failed in the summer, fired a manager that would have kept us up to seemingly distract from their own car crash, and then hired a worse mananger in Jones...

Agree with all of this except you've not singled out lyanco for criticism... He should be nowhere near our first 11. Bazunu will be a decent keeper, but he is constantly exposed by our defence gifting the opposition free chances, space, opportunities.... Any young keeper would suffer under that situation. The board should have just given Ralph an ings replacement and strengthened depth in cdm.

Okay, I've calmed down marginally. Trying to work out what that team actually is. Reckon ANM and lyanco might be playing cdm or RB between them. I'd actually put lyanco at cdm of the two... KWP at left back. Then jwp at cm, with ely/aribo playing in the 10, and then edozi and ely/aribo as wingers... Its the only sense I can make of that team. Not playing Stuart Armstrong in the 10 is poor. If lyanco is at cdm it might work, but if he's playing CB I would pick sali or DCC over him all day. If we're play 5 at the back with that midfield he deserves all the shit that's coming to him.

That midfield is horrific. Jwp, aribo, Ely, edozie.... Going to get absolutely destroyed. And ANM should not be playing over perraud unless he is injured.

Agreed. That's more of less our strongest 11 I would say. Under Ralph I'd back that team to get results in the upcoming two games. Issue was he didn't really have a fit lavia, ABK, kwp for much of the season. Under Jones... Who knows... Here is to hoping. But tbh, how many of us are expecting him not to put lyanco in over abk, and diallo in for Armstrong 😭

The captain needs a cool and disciplined head, with the awareness to apreciate the flow and feel of the game, steady the team, and drive them on at the right times. They should also be committed to the club. So no, not him.

Alvarez is class. Granted he joined them only this summer from river plate and most English fans would struggle to name more than a handful of teams from that league... But it doesn't change the fact that he is class. He'll be a regular for City next couple of seasons. I think he's only about 21 as it is... Has a very big future.

Not sure its worth debating this with Bad Wolf, from his post above he has written him off because he plays wing and doesn't have a comparable goal record as past championship strikers. You're comparing apples and oranges from that point on as i suspect he is viewed as a very different player for different people. The fact he is a fan favourite at the side top of the championship says a lot. As does the fact that we are bottom of the prem and have rather poor players throughout both wings and the striker position. Its an opportunity to sign a fan favourite from the side top of the championship for free, in a position we desperately need to strengthen. Unless we're about to go out and sign two top quality wingers, its a no brainer for me. Who knows - maybe we are...

Would you look at that, near parity between goals and xG... a thing of beauty (i mean Moffi, not adams... obviously).

I can tell you this much, they're all above us in the league table, and they can probably all afford to pay him more 🤣

He is a far better finisher than anyone we have at the moment. On that basis alone we should sign him.

Does Nathan Jones press? I didn't realise this. I genuinely thought the tactic was to stand off with 5 at the back, wait for the opposition to give us the ball, and then hoof it 50yards and hope Che wins us possession before the oppo can recycle it...

If we can't beat Forest on Wednesday we are down imo.

Oh joy, another 9-0 castration on live TV to look forward to 😕

Disagree with that and think it's quite harsh. He always carried a threat at saints but was inconsistent. He's gone to Fulham, played regulary, and has developed and honed his attacking play. He's still young but clearly he would add something to saints given our wide attacking options currently are Ely, theo, edozie, Adam Armstrong... The only two of those that offer any kind of assist/goalscoring record at all are theo and Ely... Edozie may be able to beat a man, but his finishing is atrocious and I am yet to recall him completing an actual assist.

That isn't how loan deals work? If we recall him he has to come back - it's not a transfer, he is our player?

ABK and Sali can handle mitrovic ffs. Our issue is we have no CDM to speak off. So our defence is going to be exposed down both flanks and through the middle. They're being led to the slaughter every game as it stands. Realistically if we're going to turn this around and survive, we need to be getting a draw here and beating forest. A failure to win either of these games and we're fooked. And in reality, can I see a well honed Marco silva team losing to a low confidence Nathan Jones team... No. Its going to be a cake walk for silva/fulham - they beat Luton 7-0 last year 😬😑

From where we are right now approaching new years? Sack Jones. Rehire Ralph - it's his team and they know his tactics... Then actually buy him a decent striker (to replace ings) and get him a fit CDM ffs. Easily finish 15th or higher over the rest of the season and then go again next year with a fit and competent squad. If only we had done that rather than the actual calamity SR have presided over. When you look at this season, it's actually very difficult to imagine how they could have made a worse bunch of decisions than they have done.