Wes Tender

You've really got to laugh at the comparison in how some people react to the tactical changes that Adkins made against those that Pochettino made. Had Adkins taken off Ramirez and Puncheon, he would have been crucified by some for taking off two of our best players. OK, they didn't look effective, but that has never stopped people criticising Adkins under similar circumstances. And starting Fox? OK, somebody says Shaw was ill, but he seemed fine when he came on and looked 100% better than Fox. Fox was the weak link in the team and every team exploits that wing when he's playing. It speaks volumes that it was Rodrigues giving away free-kicks from the spot that Fox should have been defending and where Shaw would probably have mopped up the danger, no sweat. Whether we would have played the same under Adkins, who knows? We've been ahead of United before and still lost, but it was satisfying to hear the praise from the pundits and from SAF for our display tonight. Let's just hope that we produce a similar committed display against Wigan on Saturday. We have a confidence boost from running United so close and we need to maintain it. If we do, we should have enough to survive the drop. The pressing high up the pitch is effective against quality teams, but surely there will come a time when it becomes predictable as a tactic and some team will lob the ball over the top for a fast forward to run onto it.

It appears that some have got a bit sidetracked from the original subject of the thread. Perhaps a good idea to reread it, and discuss whether you believe it is possible, instead of rehashing this "our club is bigger than yours" stuff, which has been done again and again ad-nauseum.

My mention of the FFP was one sentence in a paragraph about several changes that might affect the footballing landscape. And I described it as an attempt to level the playing field. I don't think that I have missed the understanding of what it is intended to do and I don't think that the intention was to fix the situation in its current form. A precis of their aims would suggest otherwise. • to introduce more discipline and rationality in club football finances; • to decrease pressure on salaries and transfer fees and limit inflationary effect; • to encourage clubs to compete with(in) their revenues; • to encourage long-term investments in the youth sector and infrastructure; • to protect the long-term viability of European club football; • to ensure clubs settle their liabilities on a timely basis. However, despite the best intentions of UEFA, I do accept that to an extent the big clubs have a distinct advantage, as they are World brands and generate massive amounts of income because of their media exposure and merchandising. At least as you say, our investments in our youth sector and infrastructure will benefit us. I would imagine that Cortese with his background ought to be quite well versed in all this and aware of how things might be exploited to our best advantage.

What would it take for an argument to penetrate your cranium? A simple question that I asked above and which I would like you to answer:- If we managed to come second now and qualified for the Champions League, would that be a success, or not? And if it would be classed as a success now, why don't you admit that it was a success then? Will you stop waffling on about teams around us, what is in our trophy cabinet, what other people have said. I'm not interested. Just answer the question I have asked without deviating off on a tangent, if you are capable of that which given your past performance I very much doubt.

Look. I'll make it simple for you. You said that we had never been successful. I said we had achieved the success of being runners up to Liverpool before now, coming second in the top flight. Still with me? The debate on this thread is about whether we could qualify for Europe by being one of the top four teams, is it not? But you have said that you don't consider coming second in the top flight constitutes success. Many others on here rule it out as ever being possible. So having done it ourselves before (finishing in the top four), were we successful that year or not? And if we managed to come second now and qualified for the Champions League, would that be a success, or not? And if it would be classed as a success now, why don't you admit that it was a success then? Understand? I am not debating all that other stuff. Just your contention that we have never been successful. I really can't make it any plainer than that.

He's also tried to put words into my mouth too. Great trolling or WUM from him. Either that, or he's not very good at comprehension. Which is it, DD?

Jesus Christ yourself! Barry asserted that we have never been successful. That is incorrect, unless you consider that coming second to the all-conquering Liverpool of that period was a failure. If we came second this coming season and then declined the following few seasons, would you say that we had a successful season, or would you say it was only second and that it wasn't part of a run of successes? You yourself even mentioned our achievements in the FA Cup and JPT. In other words, we were successful in those competitions. Please point out to me where I said that we would be challenging for the Premier League title in the next 3-5 years. I don't see me saying that at all. But then there are some on here who have extreme difficulties in comprehending simple English. All I have ever said is that although it is improbable, it is not impossible. Neither have I put a timescale on it either. That was you.

Ah! So somebody cannot be considered successful now if they managed to come second, but they must additionally have had a golden period of success too. And to boot, it must have been recent too. Any more caveats you would like to add in a vain attempt to lessen the ridicule that you are piling onto yourself?

Me too, CS. And when I was a little nipper, the glory teams included Wolves, Bolton, Sheffield Wednesday, Blackburn, Burnley, etc. Man Utd didn't particularly register until the Munich air disaster. Some of these youngsters don't have that perspective in their lives.

So somebody who finishes second in the Olympics, the Eurovision Song Contest, second in the Tour de France, anything else you care to mention, is not successful? And as I have to repeat, because the irony appears to have gone right over your head, you and others don't seem to reckon that we will ever finish in the top four without loads of money being spent, but that when we actually came second previously before, that is not deemed to constitute ever being successful by you. As I say, you're an imbecile.

I've already told you. So was coming second behnd Liverpool in their pomp and ahead of United, Arsenal, etc in 83/84 not deemed to be a success by you? What's the point in getting into the top four if people like you wouldn't consider it a success? Imbecile.

The sale of shirts is purely because they are a glory club followed by plastics around the World, most of whom will never see a match at Chelsea. Most of the shirts they wear are fakes. If Abramovic pulls out and nobody as wealthy comes in to take over, they will begin a gradual decline and gradually the plastic glory hunters will desert them.

You said that we have never been successful. You're plainly wrong. As usual.

Well, as I've picked holes in another of your posts, I might as well pick some in this one too. For all that Liverpool are huge as a World renowned club with an illustrious history, that didn't stop them falling out of the top 4 did it? It doesn't take more than a few seconds to find pages of stuff on how they are declining. http://liverpoolfc-talk.com/2012/08/01/liverpools-last-5-seasons-stats-reveal-a-disturbing-trend-rogers-has-to-address/ http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/liverpool/news/fergie-shocked-by-liverpool-decline_63695.html You'll note also Ferguson mentioning Arsenal's decline too in that second link. Obviously we aren't going to outspend Chelsea and Man City, but neither do Man Utd outspend them. It doesn't mean that with some very talented players comparable to Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw coming through our academy, together with some astute additions bought in, that we couldn't field a team capable of beating Man City's mega-expensive team.

What a dismal failure that was coming runners up in the top flight in 83/84 season to the illustrious Liverpool having been in the top 5 for most of the season. And having that season finished ahead of Man Utd in 4th, Arsenal in 6th, Spurs 8th and Chelsea and Newcastle in the second division. Yes, we've never had success at all, have we, Barry? I have no idea how old you are, so perhaps you meant not during your lifetime

As unlikely as it would appear to be, nobody can say with 100% certainty that it is an impossibility. You only have to look to the examples of the teams that you have listed to see that the football landscape is constantly changing. Liverpool would have been unassailable if this debate was held 5 years ago, but then Manchester City wouldn't have been there bracketed together with United and Chelsea, and go back a little further and Chelsea wouldn't have been there either and it's only during the past few seasons that Spurs have risen once more towards the top and yet you describe them as really big juggernauts. Several factors will have a direct bearing on the situation over the next few years. New legislation by Football's governing bodies will attempt to level the playing field regarding the percentage of turnover that can be spent on players and their wages. Managers at the top like Ferguson will change, as will owners. Nobody can predict with any degree of certainty what the effect of all these changes will be on the hierarchy of the Premiership. During my lifetime, I've seen substantial changes already and that gives me an open mind about these things, so that whereas I think that it would be unlikely for us to achieve Champions League football, I don't rule it out entirely.

And it was boring listening to a long diatribe from Pochettino too, before the translation was made, although I suppose one can observe his body language when he is speaking. You could see that the translator had a job trying to remember everything that was said. Why doesn't Pochettino answer the question in paragraphs, let the translator do his stuff on that and then it would be much easier to follow with less chance of anything being left out.

This is a much better test than the previous one. I would be fairly confident in the expectation that around 80% of our indigenous population would have failed the last one, which is ironic in the extreme, that immigrants could only stay here if they knew more about our country than us.

Wow! I log on to find a new thread on exactly the same subject as another one. And it's by Miltonroader the Skate too. Great to learn what his impressions and predictions are.

Nobody disputes the massive contribution he made to this club as a player and the great enjoyment it was watching the genius he was with a football at his feet. I have very clear and fond memories of watching him score some incredible goals. But he's not that important to the club anymore. He's retired as a footballer, he holds no position at the club as an employee, having thrown his lot in with the easy money gained as a pundit in the media. And if he uses that position as a platform to vent his vitriol at the Club's chief Executive, then he must accept that his reputation will suffer, as well as Cortese's and the Club's. Because nobody in Football apart from us is really that bothered about the whole affair. But as much as he made a really positive contribution to the club and its image when he was a player, he is now doing his best to tarnish the club's image through this ridiculous and petty vendetta that he and Cortese have towards each other. They're both behaving like a couple of kids and should grow up and show some maturity. If they both profess to have the best interests of the club at heart, then they should bury their differences and move on.

I have no need of any such services and I very much doubt that Cortese does either. Is this an area where you have some expertise though?

How long is our Pochettino going to need to achieve the same standard?

I've also come across somebody in business who was very complimentary about him and the way that he handled their contract with the club.

You really couldn't have produced two more disparate examples. One spends half his life publicising himself in the media, formerly in the newspapers and latterly the TV. The other is almost a recluse when it comes to talking to the media.

Exactly. We two haven't met and I've formed my opinion of you.