Wes Tender

Some of us do have businesses to run. But it's now lunch break time.

Neither did I say that I expected us to be playing CL football in the next five years, nor did I see us on a par with Arsenal, Man City and Newcastle. I merely pointed out that the changing football landscape that will be brought about by the new financial restrictions and the changes of fortunes of several of the protagonists traditionally at the top of the Premiership tables has changed recently and might yet change further. Legod Third Coming and Frank and others made some really good points, which you dismissed, but were incapable of arguing against with any credibility. Which is why I accused you of being incapable of thinking outside the narrow confines of what you believe to be possible.

What? You are good at thinking outside of the narrow confines of what you believe is possible for us? Really? You could have fooled me.

People from further afield are less likely to travel to a venue where there is not the capacity to accommodate them, are they? The stadium was full enough when the glory teams were in town. The situation remains the same, although the stadium has over twice the capacity that the Dell had. When the glory teams are in town, we could undoubtedly sell substantially more seats than the capacity we have at the moment. You're really not much good at thinking outside of the narrow confines of what you believe is possible for us, are you?

They couldn't get into the stadium. Next.

Surely somebody of the inteligence that you obviously think you have, wouldn't make the simple error of quoting a city amongst your examples that has two well established clubs vying for support? Tell me it ain't true!

I hear your bol locks and raise it a bol locks. What a poor example you give in Guildford. It's far closer to the London Clubs then here, so even your argument that they will be ManUre supporters is weak. Also a City like Guildford isn't even particularly the sort of environment that is strong on football supporters. Our main catchment area is along the South coast from Brighton to Wareham and a radius northwards encompassing Salisbury, Andover, Basingstoke, Alton, etc. And that is a larger catchment than most clubs have. The more successful we become, the more plastics in this area we will convert. With the Skates demise, they will retain a hardcore, but we will pick up lots more support from that area and also from the Bournemouth area, fewer from Brighton.

The only posts I haven't read are those from Turkish as a) he is on ignore and b) they are not worth reading anyway. Regrettably, people often quote them for some reason, which makes a mockery of the ignore function. And as you view my posts as a complete waste of time, I assume that you won't be answering any more of them. However, I will continue to respond to yours where I disagree with your opinion. That is what this forum is supposed to be about.

Well, your point about Cisse as an example of Newcastle being a bigger club than us was clearly a weak one when consideration is given to the value of players brought through our ranks and the other example of Ba in the Newcastle team who is the equal of Cisse and was a free. If you wish to dismiss that as losing the argument because of a derogatory off the cuff remark that many of the doubters probably do not have any sort of historical perspective because of their age, then go ahead. As for the examples of other clubs that have sold their best youngsters and not benefitted, that is again a bit of a red-herring. When we had to sell our best yougsters, it was because we had to do so to balance the books. That situation is now changed and we do not have sell players for financial reasons. Whether benefit is derived from selling youngsters depends on what one does with the income from it. If that is ploughed back in to the team or the infrastructure, then positive benefits will acrue for the club's future prospects. As for there being no precedent for a club our size qualifying for Europe, then that is an argument against our club at its current size. But then it is not the plan that we will remain this size, is it? And I'm sorry to disappoint; if there was some other club of a similar size expecting Champions Leaugue football in the next 5 years, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand like you. I'd weigh up the factors regarding their ownership, manager, potential for increasing revenue streams through expansion etc, before making a decision as to whether it was a possibility. And I'd admire their ambition.

I assure you that I don't need to look in a dictionary to know the meaning of reality. And I'd suggest that my comprehension of the language is clearly better than yours too. For example, you somehow manage to conclude that because I had agreed that promotion to the Premiership in successive seasons was a good example to illustrate how the improbable was possible, you have construed it in your mind to mean that it is on a par with us achieving Champions League football. Obviously it is not. It was purely an example to the doubters that even unlikely or improbable outcomes are not impossible. Do you see the difference? And how do you arrive at the conclusion that the financial regulations will make it harder to compete with the bigger clubs. It will favour those clubs like us who bring through players from an academy for a start.

Let me open your eyes, if not your mind. So Newcastle spend £10 million on Cisse and that justifies your argument that they are a big club. So remind me how much we got for Oxlade-Chamberlain? How much would Bale be worth today? Walcott? Either we now begin to keep those sorts of player from our academy, in which case we could argue that our team comprises several players worth far more than the likes of Cisse, or we sell them to a bigger club and gain more money than Cisse is worth. Do you see?

You're wasting your time trying to provide historical perspective to the argument. This won't wash with pimply youths too young to remember. It is only a short time ago when this same argument about our future prospects brought the response that there were only an elite handful of clubs who would dominate the top four positions for evermore. Already that looks pretty stupid based on this season's positions, where they had assured us that Liverpool had one of those positions by divine right. I can foresee a situation that ManUre might well drop down a few places too when Fergie retires.

Yes, way past reality is a pretty fair assessment. And even though Norwich managed it before us, doesn't in any way detract from the feat, as it is historically a rarity. And although I really can't be bothered to trawl back to what your prediction was at the start of the season, I'd be pretty confident that it was not promotion. Therefore it would be rather ironic for you to be lessening the magnitude of our achievement now. Well, that's a tight one to call. Personally, I am of the opinion that because of the financial levelling of the playing field, there is a good chance that we could equal our previous tenure of 27 years in the Premiership. If you broadened the argument as to whether there was more chance of relegation than Champions League football sometime in the future, I'd be disposed to believe that we would achieve Champions League football first.

My position too. Sensible people allow for the unlikely to happen and one doesn't have to look far for an example, as there were many on here who scoffed at the possibility of us going up in successive seasons. Naturally there were all sorts of logical reasons why it just wasn't going to happen; there were bigger clubs in the division than when Norwich did it, others were spending shed loads on players, etc. But happen it did. And to those saying that one only has to look at the last decade to get some perspective, go ahead and look at the table a decade ago. There were teams who were dominating then that have slipped down the division now and conversely there are others who have risen to the top now who did not feature prominently then. As to this season, who would have placed Liverpool so low and Newcastle and Tottenham so high? And a season where ManUre won nothing at all, Chelsea did well in Europe, but not so well in the league? A combination of factors could very well combine to produce a high table finish one season within a 5 year time span. New regulations to produce a more level playing field financially would favour us. Also during that time span, we will develop the next crop of academy players and if doing well, we could either keep them here, or sell for mega-bucks if they are showcasing their talents in the Premiership. An expanded stadium capacity would bring in additional revenue to invest in the team's quality. So a combination of these factors might well produce a finish one season in the comparatively near future to enable us to gain a place in Europe.

Here it is:- CMFG http://www.myspace.com/video/let-39-s-rock-and-roll/chrissy-marsden-football-genius/31751498

It's sufficient that we had our player with the two first goals, whereas no other player had more than one in the poll. We know that if it wasn't for the glory teams' fans voting for their player that MLT would have won it, as either of those goals was arguably better technically than the others. And having seen the Delap goal again, yes, even that was better than the Rooney bicycle kick, but he scored it for an unglamorous club, so it never stood a chance. And why didn't the Chrissy Marsden football genius goal get included? See, the poll is a nonsense.

The Club really ought to bring out a DVD about our stay in the lower divisions. Perhaps they could call it "Saints - the wilderness years" I'd love to buy it if available. There were some great matches and generally it was a very enjoyable time in the lower divisions. I dare say that when a large proportion of our matches in the Premiership have been switched to the evenings/Sundays/Mondays/Tuesdays, I'll grow a bit more wistful for the times when we were left alone by Sky and played more often at 3pm on a Saturday, which is how football ought to be.

This. And it annoys me that somehow he feels that he is the better person to take a free kick within range of goal than Lambert. I can't remember him scoring from one yet. We can do better than him now we're in the Premiership. He's been caught out enough times by Championship players, so many of the Premiership wingers will skin him.

Thinks. How can I go to the match, look smart enough so the fashionistas don't take the mick out of me, yet still look cool afterwards when I go out clubbing? Thinks a bit harder. But I don't go out after the match, so I can wear what I like. Doh! Sod the bloody fashionistas, the small-minded little tw*ts.

Thanks for correcting the overdraft figure that pushed us under, memories fade with the time lapsed since. Even more of a paltry amount than I thought and certainly not of such a magnitude as to deter somebody reasonably successful in business had they had the desire to bail out Lowe. Thankfully, there was the urge to rid us of all of that lot so that nobody wanted to save his skin. As to the connection between us, Richard Fry and Mark Fry/Begbies Traynor, apparently unconnected maybe; but pardon me if I remain a cynic at such a coincidence.

Is this the Richard Fry who pulled the plug on us for a comparatively paltry £600,000 overdraft when he was working for Barclays Bank, who then coincidentally turned up shortly afterwards working for our administrators? The one whose name mysteriously disappeared from their contacts list the minute that this was uncovered on here?

And in our fans' photo, there is some kid with a red and white wig and face paint. This is disgusting. He is letting down the whole club. I am proud of my club, but rival fans will be laughing at us. I am ashamed to support a club with such fans.

An excellent summary, Deano. As you say, they appear to be incapable of differentiating between a) and b) and by concentrating their bile against those who see no harm in having a party atmosphere on key dates in the Saints season, they do indeed make themselves look paranoid, insecure, as well as small-minded and juvenile. They really must be sad individuals to care what fans of other clubs think about us and in a rather pathetic attempt to excuse it, they justify it by saying that it is pride in our club. It isn't. Mind you, one of them previously went as far as confronting rival fans and got into a spot of bother about it, so it doesn't surprise me that they think this way. I do indeed remember the Southend lads and what a great bunch they were. I wonder if they have some of these uber fans who will have been ashamed of them. I suppose so, as the fans of clubs come from a broad church. But I'd rather have a section of fans who dress like idiots occasionally, than a section who behave like idiots and get the club a bad name because they have a reputation as trouble-makers.

I asked you this question several posts ago, Sour Mash, but you haven't responded. Is it because you cannot? If you can justify your position, then I'd be fascinated to hear the reasoning behind it.

Quality