baggytrousers

The youth teams play 4-3-3 not anything to do with the first team's formation but because this formation is best for their footballing education (see the excellent article on Les Reed on St. Marys Musings for more info). Poch played a 4-2-3-1 high pressing style and Koeman switched between 3-5-2 and 4-2-3-1, neither one are the same as the 4-3-3 the youth teams play so why are you complaining about this now ? Don't believe we are weaker than last year at all and tactics-wise I think the first team has shown a lot of promise. It's our execution, particularly in the final third, that has been letting us down. Still, early days yet. We are only 3 games into the season, always assuming that it's Southampton that you support.

Heard an interview with Southgate on 5 live after the game. Said he swapped from the diamond for tactical reasons due to the way Norway had set up. Said that they were happy with the system which they played to win the Toulon tournament and that it suited their fron two of Rashford and Redmond who both like to cut in from wide positions.

Players with potential at the start of last season : Riyad Mahrez Dele Ali N'Golo Kante Marcus Rashford Jamie Vardy Danny Drinkwater Dmitri Payet whilst established premiership talents like Ivanovic, Fabregas, Bony, Hazard, even Schneiderlin floundered. You mark down our incomings because they are only potential but get two of your -3 total from the moving on of a 39 year old third choice keeper and a 31 year old striker who had lost his place in the first team. Football is continually renewing itself and the identifying and promoting of young talent is exactly what you need to do if you do not want to go backwards as your leading lights fade. Were we wrong to let Rickie Lambert leave when he did ? You count losing players at the end of their career as negatives but players that we have coming through at the start of their career don't even make your radar as possible positives. I accept that losing Mane and Wanyama were blows but they were determined to go and we have replaced them with a 20 year old who Guardiola described as "the new Busquets" and an attacking midfielder who is probably the most exciting talent we have signed in many a long year. Plus we have signed Redmond who is so far ahead of non-playing Juanmi and non-playing Ramirez that there's really no comparison. I take it your begrudging award of a slight, dubious positive in your comparison here was you trying to make it appear that you were being genuinely balanced in your viewpoint. For me there's absolutely no debate in this one. Crystal clear upgrade. Also, I believe you have misrepresented my previous post about him. The point I was making is that he scored more goals last season from midfield for a relegated side than two players who people on here were calling for us to sign at great cost who played for mid-table or Champions league sides as strikers, not midfielders. More assists as well. Personally, I'm really positive about our three major signings this summer. Been a really good transfer window and I'm liking the direction the club are heading. Don't expect you to agree but would like it if you put your misgivings behind you and gave these incomings and our new manager a fair chance to prove themselves. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Nice theory except that England didn't actually play The DIAMOND at the euros. In all their games they played a FOUR-THREE-THREE formation. In the game against Iceland they played Kane as the target man with Sturridge on the right wing and Sterling on the left. NOT the same system as Puel's 4-4-2 diamond at all. Where you may be getting confused is that in the run-up to Euro 2016 Woy experimented with a 4-4-2 diamond in the home friendly against Portugal in a bid to try and get Kane and Vardy playing up front in the same team. Although England won the game 1-0 the experiment was largely considered a failure as Kane and Vardy seemed to spend most of their time tracking opposition full backs rather than playing trough the middle. As a consequence Woy swapped back to his favoured 4-3-3 for the tournament proper. The only proper example of someone playing the 4-4-2 diamond in English football is the Liverpool team of 2013/14 which had Sturridge and Suarez playing as the two and Stevie G was in the Romeu DM position. This is where things get interesting because this was easily Liverpool's best season in living memory, finishing runners-up and scoring 101 goals in the process. In fact they should really have won the league and might well of done had Stevie G not had THAT slip. In an odd way that famous slip did highlight one of the weaknesses of the diamond in that if the DM makes a mistake the defence can be left fairly open. I do wonder if Romeu is up to it in that role from what I've seen so far but it's early days so let's give him a chance to prove himself. The real plus about that system for Liverpool that season however was the fluidity of their attack. They went from scoring 71 goals the season before with the same strikers to 101 goals that season and then down to 52 the following season although by that time Suarez was gone. 2013/14 was the only season they played the diamond however and their attack became almost unplayable at times. A lot of the credit was given to Suarez who was in imperious form but I think it's fair to say that the system played a big part in Liverpool's form that season, playing without a big man but with two technical mobile strikers, supported by a small, technical playmaker (Coutinho) and fullbacks who bombed on to provide the width. It's also worth noting that they only scored 1 goal in 4 out of their first 5 games that season but by mid-season they were regularly whacking the goals in. They scored 24 in 6 games in November/December. The diamond certainly worked that season for Liverpool but they did have the exceptional talent of Suarez to call upon. The system does have the advantage of freeing up a team's best attacking talent and making them very different to counter (witness Hatem Ben Arfa at Nice last season). I believe this was the imperative behind us going all out to get Boufal as he does seem to be an extraordinary talent. Time will tell if the diamond proves to be the right system for us but I believe we have the players to make it work and it would be folly to abandon it before it's had a chance to prove itself. I know a lot of this is going to fall on deaf ears and the fact that you honestly thought that England were playing a 4-4-2 diamond against Iceland shows that the club has got its work cut out to convince some of the fans but, for the club's sake, give the team a fair chance to implement Puel's plans properly, get behind them and let's judge them after 10 games or so when we have had a proper chance to truly evaluate our new manager and his tactics.

Title of the thread is 'Balanced reflections on the transfer window' You want the 'Biased reflections on the transfer window' thread.

I think a lot of us haven't come to a conclusion as yet given that we've only had 3 games. Would like to see him given a fair go. Would have thought you would have picked up that your personal viewpoint isn't shared by all Saints fans, far from it. All it takes is to read the large number of contrary posts and take them into account before you presume to speak for all Saints fans. Interesting four teams you pick as a blueprint for success in the Premiership. The Manchester sides and Chelsea have undoubtedly had success but their blueprint has largely been based on spending huge amounts of cash to buy the title which we're not in a position to do. The fourth side you choose is not Arsenal as you might think but Everton which is quite frankly bizarre. Wouldn't really consider them at their peak to be any better than Saints are right now and whilst they did pretty well under Moyes they never seriously challenged. The only teams who have really threatened to break the stranglehold of the top four with a more modest budget were Leicester and Tottenham last year and Brendan's Liverpool team in the Stevie Gerrard slip year so I'd consider all three of them worth looking at to see what could potentially work for Saints if they genuinely want to challenge the big four. Tactically, these three are a mixed bag. Leicester played a 4-4-2 counter attack game with great team spirit and exceptional individual performances raising them well above the standard you might expect of them. Poch's Spurs side deployed a 4-2-3-1 high energy pressing game much like he did for us but has seemed to take it a step further with Spurs. Liverpool, in the year they almost won the title, played a 4-4-2 diamond very similar to what Puel is trying to implement here. So, the three teams who have seriously challenged the big clubs have not tried to copy them using far poorer resources but instead found 3 different tactical approaches to shake things up and give the big clubs something to genuinely worry about. In each of the 3 cases these systems were initially deployed with mixed results but once the players got up to speed with them they got some momentum going and really challenged (and in Leicester's case beat) the established big four champions league clubs. Why encourage our bold, new manager to be a predictable poor man's carbon copy of 3 of the 4 big clubs (plus crappy, little Everton) when we can be far more ambitious and really take it to them with innovative tactics coupled with young, talented, technical players ? Seems backward thinking to me. Need to be more ambitious.

9 August 2015 Newcastle United 2–2 Southampton 15 August 2015 Southampton 0–3 Everton 20 August 2015 Southampton 1–1 Midtjylland 23 August 2015 Watford 0-0 Southampton

Good point about us having the second youngest squad. Lot of really promising talent in that squad as well. The signings of Hojbjerg, Bouffal and Redmond has really laid down a marker in my view that we're bring in highly technical, talented young players with huge potential upside but Puel needs to be given time to work with them and help them realise their potential. If he does then exciting times ahead. As you say, fans need to resist the negative narrative that's being floated in some quarters and give Puel and his system a fair chance. Ten games at least.

Thought I'd post this interesting table form the official Premier League site. It shows teams ranked by the number of shots they've had on goal so far this season : Rank Club Stat 1. Liverpool 55 2. Southampton 53 3. Manchester United 52 4. Chelsea 51 5. Manchester City 50 6. Swansea City 49 7. Crystal Palace 48 8. Everton 46 9. Tottenham Hotspur 44 10. Leicester City 39 11. West Bromwich Albion 37 12. Hull City 34 13. Arsenal 32 14. West Ham United 32 15. Sunderland 30 16. Stoke City 28 17. Bournemouth 27 18. Middlesbrough 27 19. Watford 25 20. Burnley 19 https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_scoring_att?se=54 As you can see Saints rank second on 53 shots behind only Liverpool and ahead of Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, etc. Not only that, but we've also delivered more crosses than the big clubs : Rank Club Stat 1. Crystal Palace 98 2. Swansea City 89 3. Southampton 75 4. Chelsea 71 5. Manchester United 66 6. West Bromwich Albion 61 7. Tottenham Hotspur 59 8. Manchester City 57 9. Sunderland 57 10. Arsenal 56 11. Stoke City 56 12. Watford 54 13. Bournemouth 51 14. Liverpool 50 15. Everton 48 16. Middlesbrough 48 17. West Ham United 47 18. Burnley 46 19. Leicester City 46 20. Hull City 26 https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_cross?se=54 Surely this must be some mistake as I keep on reading on this forum about how we are boring, just pass the ball sideways amongst our back four, are playing in a system that doesn't suit the players and that we are relegation fodder. However, this very negative viewpoint of the games thus far in no way matches what I, and am sure many other Saints fans, have seen in the games so far. There's a lot to be positive about in the performances so far but a lot of the WUMs on this forum have chosen, for their own purposes, to exaggerate some of the negatives to a ridiculous level. Sure there have been some poor patches in games but there's also been some excellent approach play and, as the stats show we've been creating plenty of chances. Better quality in the final third would have seen us make a far better start to this season than we did last. Personally, I'd rather believe what I've seen in front of me and the official stats to back that up than some cobblers about players body language, our manager being boring in interviews and other 'Feel it in my bones' type nonsense. 'Never did like the look of him. Should have appointed that Pellegrini. I've heard of him. Told you that Frenchie was no good. Didn't I tell you Darren'. It's only 3 games into the season, 3 games !!! The players are still getting used to the new manager and system, an excuse they didn't have at the start of last season when they looked and played considerably worse. Remember Midtylland . We are creating chances as these stats show. Just need to start converting some of them and get some more consistency and we'll be in for a solid, exciting season.

He scored 6 goals and got 4 assists in the Premier League last season which is better than one goal in 10 and is a lot better than Berahino's 4 goals and 0 assists as a striker for a mid-table club or Bony's 4 goals and 4 assists as a striker for a top 4 club. Yet quite a few posters wanted us to spunk 20 million plus on one of these two and seem unimpressed by Redmond. Redmond has also scored 9 in 28 for the England U21s which is pretty decent from midfield. As an aside I was chatting to a Norwich fan on the train last night and he was raving about Redmond. Couldn't believe they'd sold him and thought we had an absolute bargain.

Very imaginary for this forum more like.

True. It does seem like we've got lots of Pompey fans on here these days. Most of them seem to have "Saint" in their name. Perfect cover !!!

Bed wetters at it again

Nathan Redmond scored 6 goals and got 4 assists playing in midfield for a relegated side last season. Berahino got 4 goals and 0 assists playing as a striker for a mid-table side. Redmond is more skilful, has a far better attitude and has been more impressive with the England U-21s. Yet another case of people moaning about the player we haven't got rather than being pleased with the one we have even though we've clearly done the better deal.

4 goals and no assists in 1747 minutes last season. As a striker !!! Compare that to Boufal's 12 goals and 69 chances created from midfield. Our 3 major signings thus far are much, much better than Berahino IMO.

Agree with this except I don't believe it's a wheel we're on but an upward spiral. As the original poster pointed out, each time we go through this we are having less departures (5 to 4 to 3). Also, whilst the players that leave are further on in their development than the players we are bringing in, the incoming ones have more potential and thus more upside. Read what Mr. Guardiola said about Hojbjerg in Per Confidential and Boufal looks to have all the attributes to be a world beater. They are both still young (as is Redmond) and have a lot of improving to do so a little patience is needed. Each time we go through this cycle we are getting better talent to work with and usually making additional signings to add to squad depth. The Lambert, Lallana, Lovren year had a good first 11 but slim pickings beyond that. Now we have two good players in every position. Another factor in our upward spiral is that we are tying our core players to long term contracts. 7 of them took up new extended contracts this summer and the 3 young starlets we've brought in have all signed decent length deals. We have also upgraded our training facilities at Staplewood to be world class and have boosted our academy with some new talent in the off season. I have the impression that as a club we are slowly, slowly building to a critical mass where we can be a solid top half of the table club with legitimate aspirations of one day making a Champions League position (not this season but one like the last one where some of the big clubs get caught out). We are slowly building to the point where having a player or two throw their toys out of the pram and demand a move (as will happen) will really not impact us anywhere as near as it has done in the past. Take some time to reflect and look at how much this club of ours has achieved in the last 7 years and have some patience with the strategy as sometimes you need to take a little step backwards to make the next step forwards. I'm confident things are heading in the right direction even though results aren't currently going our way and, like the original poster, am exasperated by some of the ridiculously over the top negativity on the site at the moment.

16 Million according to the BBC. Fantastic news. Absolute bargain at that price.

This write up on Bouffal from site EPLIndex : "It would be an exciting signing for the club, with Boufal becoming the best attacking midfielder at Lille since Eden Hazard. Although that is a huge claim, Boufal was sensational last season and caught the attention of the footballing world. He is a dynamic attacking midfielder, who will be great to watch if he does move to the Premier League. Boufal has great close ball control and his quick feet allow him to dribble through defences. His ability to beat players make him perfect for the Premier League. During his time with Lille, he scored some excellent goals and looked unplayable at times. In England, the pace of the game means that there are spaces to exploit and that is why players like Hazard, Riyad Mahrez and Dimitri Payet have been successful in this league. To an extent, Boufal shares characteristics with all three. He has been compared with Hazard during his spell with Lille and many see him as the most exciting player at the club since the Belgian. Last season, Riyad Mahrez took the league by storm and Boufal shares a similar past, making their names in Ligue 2. They also both opted to play for an African country rather than France, where they were born. Boufal has a larger reputation than Mahrez did at the age of 22, but there are a lot of parallels between the two. Dimitri Payet was one of the signings of last season and Boufal could emulate him if he joins Southampton. He is a player who has the potential to play regularly in the Champions League and it would be a coup for Southampton to sign him."

Same result as last year but a much better performance, highlighted by the fact that the Sunderland Chronicle picked Jordan Pickford as man of the match : http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jordan-pickford-sunderlands-man-match-11812365? In last year's game we had to rely on a VVD injury time equaliser to rescue us after a really poor performance. We also started with 2 points after 3 games last year and had an absolute horror run mid-season so let's not pretend that the 4-2-3-1 always worked for us. It clearly didn't at times which is why RK changed to 3 at the back on multiple occasions. Also, I would like to point out that in our current run of form, if you include pre season, we have only lost 1 game out of 15, that's 1 game out of 15, and that was at Old Trafford against a star-studded Mourinho Man U. We have a new system, new manager and some exciting new talent (Boufal is seriously talented), which has great potential but is very young. Think we're at the very start of a journey here. Show some patience and give the team a chance to refine the system and make it click before you write it and them off.

Think the biggest worry so far has been defensive midfield. Romeu hasn't looked good so far and a mistake from him leaves our back four exposed. Don't think it's an issue with the system. Romeu is a decent player in a defensive two but has looked out of his depth so far when shielding the back four. Need a real strong destroyer in the Big Vic mould in that position. That would help a lot.

The result is the exact same score as the equivalent fixture last year when we played 4-2-3-1 and had Wanyama, Mane and Pelle. The only difference is that we equalised earlier this year and probably deserved it this time whereas the performance in this game under Koeman was worse and we were only saved by a VVD last ditch effort well into injury time. Not claiming everything is totally rosey but let's remember that we had some serious downturns last year and our performance at home against Sunderland was pants then, probably worse than this one. My take on the season thus far is that in every game we've had some really good promising spells, which we've largely failed to take advantage of, and some periods where individuals have not done some of the basics well and as a consequence the team play has suffered. Thought Romeu had a shocker today as did Cedric against Watford. I think the jury's out on the formation at this point as the team are still getting to grips with it. It's a pretty similar system to the one Liverpool played when they got within a Stevie Gerrard slip of the title so let's not dismiss it out of hand. I would like to remind everyone that at the start (and indeed in the middle) of last season 4-2-3-1 was not exactly setting the world alight for us which is why Ronald felt the need to go to 3 at the back. Granted, it came good in the run in but there are many factors involved in determining the result of a football match and we need to give Puel and the system time.

I think it's more likely that Boufal will play up front with Tadic still in the No.10 role. Read the Bleacher report's breakdown of the midfield diamond . The front two are more like inside left and inside rights, with lots of movement between the flanks and the centre. Everyone's assuming Boufal will be playing No. 10 but he's a winger who scored 12 goals last season. I reckon Tadic will still be the first choice No. 10 with Boufal playing left of the front two but they will have the freedom to swap positions. As you say we could well have a very fluid front 3. Exciting times.

Panic on the streets of Totton Panic on the streets of Bursledon I wonder to myself Would life ever be sane again Burn down the Glasgow Hang blessed Saint Robbie Because the whinges they constantly post They say nothing to me about my team Hang blessed Saint Robbie Because the whinges they constantly post On Eastleigh side-streets that you lurk round The provincial views you write down Hang Saint, hang Saint Robbie, hang Saint Robbie Hang Saint, hang Saint Robbie, hang Saint Robbie Hang Saint Robbiiieeee Hang Saint Robbbiiieee Hang Saint Robbbiiieee Hang Saint Robbbiiieee Hang Saint, hang Saint Robbie, hang Saint Robbie

Doubt if he would be. I'd expect Tadic to carry on playing in the Number 10 role. Boufal is a tricky winger (more of a Hazard/Mahrez type). Think he'd be ideally suited to one of the split striker roles and that's why we've got him. Would envisage Tadic at the top of the diamond with two out of Boufal, Long and Redmond playing as the split strikers. Boufal could deputise in the No 10 role if Tadic gets injured or loses form. Will get really interesting if we sign Stanciu as well.

I'll wet the bed and melt with you You've seen the difference and it's getting wetter all the time There's nothing you and I won't poo-poo I'll wet the bed and melt with you