sadoldgit

For about the 50th time, why do you expect me to have the answer? If it were that simple don't you think that someone else would have thought of it? Where did I say that finding a way of dealing with them beyond the gun would be easy or straightforward? That doesn't mean to say a) we shouldn't keep trying and b) that it is impossible. It certainly isn't going to happen any time soon but things do change. We haven't been in conflict with extreme Islamists since the year dot so there was a time where we were able to co-habit. If it happened before it can happen again. Surely?

I'll say this again though Whelk, why expect a bloke on a football forum to be able to solve this problem? Frankly I am sick to the back teeth of people on both sides of the divide getting killed and if people want to ridicule me for saying so they can knock themselves out.

My mould breaking idea? You cant help yourself can you?

As long as Man has walked the earth there have been conflicts and guess what, eventually they get resolved.

Isnt this the problem though, that is exactly what happens. You drone Jihadi John and another takes his place. he kill Bin Laden and another takes his place.

I would love to find a solution to this conflict and somehow CBF thinks I can assume the mantle of a Henry Kissinger and come up with the goods on an Internet football forum. Wouldn't that be something? Islamic extremists will never bring the West to its knees. They will never turn every Infidel to Islam. If they don't know it now at some point the penny will drop. Unless we are happy to carry on butchering each other, at some point both sides are going to have to find a way to live together. What is the alternative? Seek to kill every last one of them whilst living with more and more nights like last night? Perhaps if they were all nicely grouped in one place then it might be doable, but it seems that many of them live amongst us so how do we find them all?

Carry on being patronising CBF, you are a master of the art.

One incidence. So it fails once in one situation and we just give up? "Idiotic" you do like name calling don't you? Do you think that helps? We had an exchange a while back where your solution rather than negotiation was to kill them as I recall.

Why not? We live in a very diverse world where all kinds find ways of living with each other. It might not be easy, but it is not impossible.

What evidence do you have that they wont? It is just an assumption on your part. What is your solution? Are you still working on the kill them all theory?

Okay Whelk, before I go find a piano. Perhaps you would like to explain why we have this problem now, because we certainly did not have it when I was growing up. Perhaps they do despise moderate Muslim but perhaps they are more likely to talk to people closer to their own persuasions than someone from the West. I am not saying that is the solution, I am trying to say keep looking to find a way forward that doesn't just involved killing. And before you say that is all they understand, that has been said of many other protagonists in the past yet bloodshed has been ended eventually.

You say that the moral high ground is facile? Why so? Isnt it better to want to find peaceful solutions to conflict? All we seem to be doing is driving more people into radicalisation and providing the fuel for more massacres of the innocent. I don't see where I have said everyone is prejudiced. I just don't see how the constant fight fire with fire policy is actually making things any better. I did have a problem with Batman's picture of nasty Muslims in need of a drone attack, granted. What is wrong in wanting to encourage a peace process? Why take the **** when clearly what we are doing is just creating more bloodbaths? Of course I don't think I am the first one to think of it. If you remember, and if not ask your mate Hypo, I said before that all if not most armed conflicts end with a dialogue. I said wouldn't it be good if, for a change, that started sooner rather than later so we have fewer of what happened last night. I also mentioned that I didn't think it helped when certain newspapers crow about us blowing people (Muslim Extremists) to pieces. All it does is make a bad situation worse. Just my opinions on an internet forum. If you feel my comments warrant a put down or a **** take sobeit. Perhaps you agree with Hypo who seems top think that the only good Jihadist is a dead Jihadist. Again, IMHO, if that is to be our policy this bloodshed is going to continue for years.

If one method fails, try another, and another. Try using moderate Muslims, whatever it takes. The door should always be left open for talks.

No it isn't, but there are clearly huge issues which need to be addressed in a more constructive way than mass murder. The West are not blameless in all of this are we. The Extreme side of Islam has grown in recent years, why is that? Maybe because we have invaded Muslim countries and killed hundreds of thousands of them under the pretence of their harbouring weapons of mass destruction. We play into the hands of the lunatic "fringe". I say fringe because we have no idea how many radicalised Islamists are out there. I have not read the Koran but my understanding is that it is much like the bible. I don't believe that it preaches killing all Infidels. We need to find a way of living together. I don't believe the mantra that we cant negotiate with these people. The ones at the top of the chain are not stupid. They don't strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up, they leave that to the idiots who buy into this sh*t. They will know that they will NEVER beat the West and will never convert everybody to Islam, no matter what they might say in public. Go back through history, armed conflicts end and immoveable ideologies move. You say this is not Ireland but weren't the words No Surrender writ large on the walls. Things are still far from perfect there but there has been a great deal of progress and the extremists have most been brought to heal. I am not saying this will be easy, but what I am saying is that it is not impossible.

If we do not find a way to live together peacefully the conflict will continue. The only way to find a way to cohabit this planet is to reach an understanding. Is the world a safer place because we have killed Saddam, Bin Laden and Jihadi John? It might be a nicer place but I wouldn't say it was safer. We cant go on killing each other ad infinitum.

What do you think? Do you think this situation is sustainable? Extreme Muslims will know that, no matter what they might say, they are not going to bring the West to its knees and at some point we have to find a way to co-exist.

How do all peace talks start? You set up a peace process and you follow it through. It isn't going to happen over night but if all you do is kill all you are going to get is death.

I was being facetious.

Perhaps you would like to start with those in the picture you posted?

Simplistically we have to find a way of living together and that will only happen by speaking to each other. The only alternative is to carry on killing each other in perpetuity. Hypo is convinced that the only way to deal with the situation is to kill all Extreme Muslims on the basis that they will never give up. There were people in Japan ion WW2 who vowed to fight to the death as also in the Korean War, Vietnamese War etc but eventually these conflicts do end and that involves both sides talking to each other. The other alternative is genocide. We make a big fuss about killing Jihadi John and they go a step further and butcher more innocent civilians. What have we gained? The killing just goes spiralling on and on. We share this planet and we have to find a way to co-exist.

So what do we do. Kill all Muslims? Good plan.

Noggin

Not for the fist time you have completely missed the point, I said that the only way this conflict will finally end will result in people sitting around a table. To make such a cheap point in the aftermath of what happened last night does you no credit.

Ditto

Dreadful news. Over 140 dead so far.