sadoldgit

This day is getting worse. Apart from a thumping headache from over indulgence at a Halloween party last night I now have to apologise to Hypo! Argh! Okay Hypo, it wasnt you who made the remark about Brighton having a large gay population due to cabin crew, it was Lighthouse. I confused your comments about the anti gay chants against Brighton supporters with Lighthouse's comments about cabin crew and apologise unreservedly. I am clearly a fruitcake and a mentalist and CB Fry was right along.

Oh dear.....okay I haven't been to Luton in years and have never been to Bradford but I have no reason to believe that there are not people who happen to be gay in either place and that they find acceptance and non acceptance in much the same way that they find it in other places across the country. Unless you are going to tell me that they have all packed their bags, taken jobs as cabin crew with BA at Gatwick and settled into digs in Brighton?

Earlier in this thread you said that there was a large gay scene in Brighton and that was because of the gay cabin crew fraternity. You seem determined to cast gay people as something apart from the rest of us who I presume you see as "normal." Apart from me of course who you have labelled a fruitcake and a mentalist. You seem to like to categorise people don't you? You have done it throughout this thread. You make huge assumptions about why people live where they do and where they feel most comfortable. You got quite worked up about the hate crime statistics and asked several times what the definition was. Why was that? Was it because in the world of Hypo there isn't any discrimination against gay people and they are clearly making it up? Despite the fact that some professional footballers have said that there are a number of gay footballers who don't want to come out because they are worried about the reaction, but you don't agree with that because you have decided there isn't any discrimination and they have nothing to worry about. Yes Unbelievable Jeff, I have read Hypos responses and I don't happen to agree with what he says. The gay people that I know live the same kind of life that we all do, they just happen to chose a different partner. I don't know for sure but I would imagine that scene is played out in Bradford and Luton and any other town, city or village that you care to mention. To the best of my knowledge none of the gay people I know have a burning desire to pack up and move to Brighton or Soho because they will be more accepted there. Perhaps some people do? My daughter goes to Uni in Brighton and I spend a lot of time there. Most of the people I come across are from Sussex strangely enough. That is not to say that there aren't any people there from Luton or Bradford, but probably not enough to set up their own ghetto yet

I assume you know the meaning of the word stereotype and have a basic grasp of statistics. My point was that all male cabin crew are not gay and you have dug up a statistic (well it was one persons guestimate but if it is good enough for the great CB Fry it is good enough for me) which proved my point. If that makes me a nutcase in your world then maybe you need to reappraise your own position here as the abitur of what passes for sanity? Oh and by the way, I think it is really sweet the way that you constantly feel the need to bail Hypo out. You would make a really good tag team although I am still not sure if you are the same person or not.

condom

So from this we are to assume that if someone is male and working as cabin crew they are gay. Along with women's hairdressers and interior designers. My CB Fry, haven't we come a long way since the 70s? Are you free? From your own figures, 40% of male cabin crew are not gay.

I went out actually. I am not trying to paint you as anti gay. I just find it odd that you think that there is a gay scene in Brighton because, according to you, of the numbers of gay cabin crew members. You also see to think that gay people are "different" to other people. These are your words.

What are you talking about?

shrinkwrap

You seem to have a thing about Soho and Brighton. I shall let you into a little secret. Gay people are everywhere! Argh!!!!!!

Do you think that there are no gay people in Bradford or Luton? Perhaps they all got jobs with BA and have moved to Brighton. You really need to get over this gay people are from another plant thing you have going on. They really are just human beings mate!

??? Digging yourself a hole Hypo! LOL, "friendlier to gay people" wtf?

So you didn't say that Brighton has a large gay community due to the cabin crew from Gatwick? Also don't you think it is very discriminatory assuming that gay people like to live with "people who are similar to them?" The gay people I know think that they are similar to me and like living in our community. I think you give yourself away with your comments Hypo! As for feeling more comfortable in numbers, wtf? I think people feel more comfortable where others treat them decently and the same as everyone else and not as someone who is "different." You make some huge assumptions in this thread Hypo. Perhaps we should bring back the ghettos? Just think what a kind gesture it was by the Nazis to group all the Jews, Slavs and Gays together. That must have been so grateful.

Has he signed yet?

Nicola Cortese - he came, he ****ed a few people off, he took away our stripes, he built it but they came for a bit and then left, he left for a huge club in Italy...oh wait.

Its amazing how brave these morons become when there are a group of them together. I am sure they wouldn't think twice about it if it was just one against one. Cowards and total aholes the lot of them.

Maybe so, it doesn't mean that they all are and is just another example of lazy stereotyping that leads to people believing that Brighton has a large gay community because it is near Gatwick.

You have had a definition Hypo. What you should concern yourself with more is what is being said by the gay community. If they say that they are still experiencing prejudice then why not believe them? Several footballers have recently said that they know of plenty of other gay footballers who wont come out because they are worried about the reaction. Why not believe them? I will explain it once more for you. A "homophobic crime" is classed as a "hate crime." These are criminal acts that can range from bullying and discrimination up to rape and murder that are carried out on people and contain an element of discrimination against someone because of their race, religion, gender, sexuality etc. For it to be deemed a "hate crime" there has to be proof that the person or persons committing the crime display a clear intent against the victim based on what would be in this case, their sexuality. If they beat up a gay guy then there would have to be evidence that the violence was driven by the fact that the victim was gay. If it was just a punch up in the street with no evidence of discrimination against the gay person because of their sexuality then it would not be classed as a "hate crime." If a gay person is burgled that is not classed as a "hate crime." If a gay person is burgled and the words "Get out of town faggot" were scrawled on the walls then it would be recorded as a "hate crime." If what you are trying to infer is that a "hate crime" is recorded against anyone who has a crime committed against them as is gay (or Muslim or foreign or transgender or whatever) then you are barking up the wrong tree. As I say, there has to be clear evidence of a particular discrimination against the victim(s) so the figures recorded are meaningful. There was a case reported the other day where a gay guy was abused by a shop worker every time he walked by the shop. They guy would blow kisses at him, make "teapot" gestures and limp wrist gestures etc. The guy was clearly targeting this guy because he was gay. No violence involved, nothing stolen but the accused was found guilty of discriminating behaviour. This will be recorded as a "hate crime." As I said earlier in the thread, I think that the term is misleading and somewhat Orwellian in nature because I am not convinced that bigots and people who carry out this type of antisocial behaviour actually always "hate" their targets, but it shouldn't detract from the acts themselves and how unacceptable they are. I think you need to also understand that just because you may not witness this behaviour, it doesn't mean to say that it doesn't happen. The fact that the CPS have the facility on their software to monitor "hate crime" cases tells you how seriously the Criminal Justice System takes these offences. The only other specifically monitored offences are murder, rape and DV cases currently. As long as people feel that they cannot be open and honest about their sexuality in this country there is clearly still a problem.

But they are spread evenly over the rest of the UK. There will always be places where you have a bit more of a concentration but I live in a very small village and know of at least 7 people who are gay in the vicinity. You also seem to think that Brighton has a gay community that is built on the gay cabin crews from Gatwick. Do you know what a stereotypical viewpoint that is? If that was the case then where are the gay communities that should have sprung up around Heathrow and all of the other airports in the UK? Do you believe that all male cabin crew are gay? Fitzhugh Fella will be interested to hear that!

I struggle with how someone who decries his roots so much uses the name St George and still follows an English football club? I also agree with Ohio. I have known many Americans who spend a great deal of time researching their family history and are very proud of where they come from originally. I have been contacted by some who have followed our family line back to Germany in the 17th century. I also spent some time in Seattle where there are many families with German origins and they were all proud to talk about their heritage. There was even a German café in Sumner with picture of Bavaria all over the walls.

ono

tantrum

I hope that Boruc plays. Apart from the added advantage to us I miss Irene on here.

Sammy Davis Jnr was gay.

They are only meaningless if you come from the standpoint that discrimination is not an issue for those people. I agree that the word "hate" is not ideal. Nor is "phobic." I don't think that people who discrimination against others have a fear of them necessarily. Hate Crime is a catch all term. For recording purposes religious crimes are recorded separately to those against gay, transsexual and bi sexual cases. They are categorised when the case contains clear elements relating to a persons sexuality, religious persuasion etc. If a person is murdered because they are gay it will be recorded as a "hate crime." If a person is bullied because they are gay it will be recorded as a "hate crime." The stats are meaningful because they show the amount of recorded cases specific in that category. I say recorded because clearly, just as in sexual assaults, common assaults and many other crimes, they don't all get reported. To dismiss the figure just because some might be false is misleading. The figures relate to successful prosecutions - or at least the figures that I used to produce when I worked for the CPS did. Unsuccessful prosecutions were recorded but not used in the stats. It is very easy for people who don't suffer from discrimination to sit around and pretend it is not an issue. Clearly it wont be for them. The important feedback comes from those who don't wont to come out because they are afraid of the reaction. The fact that there are hardly any openly gay men in football tells you what you need to know when compared to gay men in other sports and other professions. My osteopath is gay and changed his name when he came out because he was worried about how it would affect his business. This was only a few years ago. If gay people are saying that they still suffer from discrimination then who are we to say that they are not? To dispute the figures of crimes committed against them is discrimination. If someone has a criminal act committed against them just because of their sexuality or gender then that is a "hate crime." The figures are only meaningless for those who wish to pretend that these things do not exist on the scale that they clearly do.