sadoldgit

What has Wigley got to do with it? But as you have asked, in hindsight I would rather have seen the season out with him. He couldn't have done much worse then Redknapp and you would like to think he would have bought better players than Bernard and Davenport with the money that harry was given. I am not excusing the poor performances but I am pointing out the obvious. The financial constarints have had a huge detrimental effect on this club both on and off the pitch. As for promising so much, what exactly?

Thank God you weren't around in the 70s otherwise you would have had McMenemy out of the door in no time. How do define "lambasted"? Is it, pointed out that the manager who you priased had a worse record than the one you constantly slagged off? Where did I say that I would give him infinite time exactly? You do this all the time don't you. If we are going to have a grown up discussion learn the art of reading what people say and respond to what they say, not what you think they said. And whilst on the subject of Pearson, the manager you hold in such high esteem left? No of course you don't. Have you ever stopped to think that he decided not to hang about because of the financial restraints? Hmmm, that would not fit in with your agenda at all would it? A manager leaving us in the lurch. Blimey, that would make him almost like Burley wouldn't it? Still, you must have such a perfect view of what goes on at SFC tucked away in your Austrian retreat. So then, some homework for you. Go and find example of me "lambasting" Pearson and whilst your at it feel free to find posts where I say that Lowe is the Messiah. And while you are about it, one more for you. The club is skint and can't afford to pay its top earners. What do you do about it?

How old are you Alpine? 13?

I never said Pearson out I just said that his points total didn't make him a fantastic manager. I am sure you will also realise that Pearson had better and more experienced players to pick from. Tell me Alpine, as you are always so quick to rip people to shreds, why aren't you doing it now eh? Got soft spot for the Dutch and no time for the Scots perhaps? Feel free to go and fine posts where I have wanted any manager out. Unilke you I realise that this new set up is not going to happen over night and probably not even over the season. Unlike you I am not going to call for the manager to be sacked, even if we go down. We are a club with huge financial problems and few choices. You can either ignore the facts and keep finding targest to slag or you can get behind the club in its time of need. Your choice.

But I didn't say that did I? Leeds tried the other way and look hat happened to them. Like it of not if you spend what you don't have you are going to end up in trouble at some point. How do you know that he never took a punt on the football case? He took a huge punt on hiring Strachan didn't he? I'd say that signing Delgado was a huge punt too. What you fail to see is that any other CEO would have taken, or not taken, certain decsions based on the business/football needs. To trot out this stuff about running the place as a football club and for footballing ends is very naive. We have never been big spenders because we have never had the money to spend. You could argue that if the people running the club back in the mid 80's had taken a punt we might have won the league rather then come runners up. We had a preety good team but we were still relatively weak in a few areas on the pitch for a team that high in the league. Take a look at Spurs. They have spent shedloads of cash on players and look where they are. Isn't it obvious now that it doesn't matter how much money you spend it doesn't guarentee success? Charlton were held up as a model as where would should be a couple of season ago. Where are they now? Three teams get relegated each year. I can't be bothered to do the maths but dozens have been relegated since the Prem was set up. Guess what, only one was run by Lowe. Doesn't that tell you that dozens of Chairman and CEOs have made mistakes? The way you go on you would think that Lowe was the only person to oversee the relegation of a club. It happens and it happened to us. There is no guarantee that if Lowe had acted any differently that things would have turned out differently.

You seem to have completely missed what has been going on in football for some time now. It is a business and we owe a great deal of money, which, in the current economic climate is not a great position to be in. The last lot who came in on the back of running the place as a football club did well didn't they? Blew a load of cash we couldn't afford and now we are in much deeper poo than we were before. If Lowe goes we will still need someone in who runs this club as a business. We are stuffed financially and that is why tough business decisions are being made. Others will follow John and they are only being loaned because no one is up for buying them. If Skacel had this club at heart he would have taken Ipswich's offer. It is a sad state of affairs but we have no choice. If we don't get shot of the high earners you will have your wish Alpine, we will be a football club and we will be playing the likes of Bromley Town.

Read what I said. He made his announcement about the future of the club long before he left and that is when the damage was done. As for ignoring the defence...where are the problems right now and why aren't you pouring the same level of scorn on JP? Oh yes, that's right, you have decided that he is a decent chap therefore above the famous Alpine scorn.

Which is where we were before the manager you constantly vilify left and we dropped like a stone. And before you counter that we were already dropping we were still closer to the play offs than relagation zone at that point. Even after losing three of our better players last year there was no reason why a mid table finish was not possible (or probable) until Hone made his ill-timed speech and the heart visibley went out of the season. Go and check that date of his announcement and look at the performances before and after. When one of the head honchos announces to the world that any ambition for promotion is effectively over what do you expect to happen?

Surely the question should be why wouldn't Lowe let JP field his best team? As far as I know there is not one shred of evidence to support the notion that Lowe interferes with the team selection but that doesn't stop Alpine dropping it into his posts whenever he can. I seem to remember many posts along the line that a former manager was deliberatley sabataging our promotion attempt too! Hmmmm. What is evident is that the club are trying to build a team for the future and in doing so have been trying to keep the younger players together as much as possible so that in two or three years time they should have progressed to the point that they can mount a promotion push (Wilde has said that there is a 3 year plan to get promotion). Perhaps they have held off using the older players a little too long, but it is also very clear that many players have not been picked because they simply have not been fit. Not Lowe's doing at all. As we know, Lowe has a large backlog of managers. Has any one of them ever stated that Lowe tried to pick the team? We know that he had a hand in signing some players, and which club Chairman doesn't, but inconjunction with his staff rather tha unilaterally. JP might be working to a plan laid down by his bosses, but how many managers are not? Until we have irrefutable profe that Lowe does meddle with the team selections, here's an idea, let's all work on the premise that JP picks the team, sorts out the tactics and is personally responsible for any successes or failures that his team have, ok?

I doubt very much if that is true. Of course the club are going to big up any changes they make but I think most Saints fans knew the score and that this was always going to be a tough season. What should they do? Run a story saying that financial constraints mean that we are going to play kids and bring in a cheap management team so don't expect too much for a year or two? There is nothing wrong with the premise of trying to survive by bringing through your own players. Where is should be tempered though is where the players are not good enough. At some point you have to say enough is enough and bring in the older heads. Hopefully that point was against Watford

I don't quite understand where you get the "winners" from? Surely if we fail everyone fails? I really do not see what Lowe and Wilde gain if the club goes down the pan.

There is still a long way to go. We have some decent players to come back from injury and there are several sides a lot worse than us.

Blimey we have been relegated already? Mystic Alpine strikes again. And the lottery numbers for next week will be???

Here we go again, everything is Burley's is fault. When Higgy was here here was slated for being a hoofer. A number of better players came in under Burley? Better players have come and gone like Davies, remember? Burley's fault? Burley left some time ago, since then we have had two different mangers, why aren't you blaming them for he state of the defence? Doesn't fit your agenda does it? Hasn't JP been here long enough to take the rap for our defensive frailties yet or are you leaving him alone because "he is a decent chap" and you are still blaming our problems on a long departed manager? Higgy chose to leave for more money, I am sure has was really gutted about that.

He wasn't allowed anywhere near the first team, which given the postion we were in, you would have though that @Arry could have done with some advice from a "winner". Like him or not, he was never given a chance to show what he could do at SFC.

If everybody left who ever devided the fan base the club would have collapsed years ago!

He seemed to know more about goalkeepers than WGS! He gave WGS a job when his stock was low, turned out to be a good call. How do you know that he interferes with the team? The only people that divide the fan base is the fan base. Have you not noticed? The fan base are ALWAYS divided about something or someone. he had his moments but would anyone know he was back up the club now? Talk about keeping a low profile.. He is doing a job that if he was not here someone else would have to do, with the same constraints, so why go? At least he knows the club, who is to say someone esle will do any better?

Do the majority of fans go or not go to football matches because of the Chairman or because of what is on display on the pitch - or other reasons? Whilst we know that there are some here who will not go because of the chairman, most will not go because a number of other reasons - Cost, not being in the Prem, finding other things to do, fed up with overpaid footballers, lots of live footy on the telly, no drinking and driving..I am sure there are a lot more reasons that people can find for not going. I stopped going to live matches regularly years ago because a) I started playing footbal myself at weekends and b) the hooliganism. Now I rarely go because I think that the prices ar crazy. I used to be able to turn up on the day and get in with my pocket money. Now I have to plan well in advance, try and get a ticket, and pay about £100 for myself for a home match - £200 if I take my partner, for the day. I am sorry. As much as I love SFC I cannot justify that kind of expenditure on a football match more than a couple of times a year.

The fact that TB & LM are the "top" managers speaks volumes for continuity and sticking by people. LM had the worst start possible and then struggled to get back up with the likes of Channon in the side, but the club stoood by him and reaped the dividends. For me CN was not the right choice to follow LM and when people talk about when the rot set in, that was it for me. LM left a great legacy behind and we needed some to build on that. CN was not that man. We never reached the same heights again. I don't think there is a firm third. WGS, GH and GB all had their moments but no one really stayed around long enough to have what you could call a "career" here. What I find really sad is that over the last half a century, we only have had two oustanding managers - but then many clubs in that time have not even had one...

A takeover is no guarantee of sucess and might even be a more cruel scenario in that the fanbase would assume a cash injection would eqaute to a Prem return and be massively let down if that did not materialise. Remember? The Wilde Bunch rode into town and splashed some paint and money around by like a cheap night on the p*ss, all we were left with was a hang over and a nasty little rash. Whether we survive, flourish or go down the pan is all in the lap of the Gods. There are no quick fixes. There are no sure fire solutions. In many ways I am glad that we hae not been taking over by some "corporation". The so called "big clubs" are mostly racking up huge debts. What is going to happen to them in the long run? This money has to be repaid and at some point I can see some Prem clubs going under, such is the financial climate. It might not be too nice to contemplate, but the best thing for SFC as a club might be to cut its cloth accordingly and jog along in the CCC. What is worse, not getting back in the Prem or the club folding entirely?

I don't agree. Lowe might have gone though plenty of managers back didn't sack many. He might well have lent of him a little to play some of the youngsters though and I would imagine the spending would have been curbed.

Here we go again. Go check the other teams that have gone down over the years apart from Man U. Spurs, Leeds, Notts Forest etc. And gues what, not one of those clubs had Lowe as CEO. It was always going to happen to us at some point and how it didn't happen before I don't know. Goodness knows where we would have ended up without MLT for all those years. Most years it seemed that the pundits were tipping us for relegation, even Dave Jones quipped that he thought we were called "Struggling Southampton". Face it, we were a small club with a long histroy in the top flight whose day was going to come and did, just like a host of others clubs our size.

Wasn't he given £6m ???

A wasted opportunity when he was here. With the team fading fast if you were manager would you knock on his door and ask for advice? What was there to lose apart from our Prem status and Harry's ego? I just find it odd that we are so quick to knock down anyone who has any success, I mean it is not as if this club has not needed some of that over the last how many years??? I suspect that he still suffers from his association with Lowe. If he had been a part of the Wilde Bunch I wonder if his arrival would have been greeted differntly by those who think that his methods can't be transferred to other sports? We went down the shoot not because of Woodward but because certain people were too arrogant to let him near the first team. Maybe he would have made a differnce, maybe not, but could he done any worse than Arry? Still, not to worry, he won't be back, nor will anyone of note after the way they get treated by a large percentage of our fans.

Playground mentality again Alpine? You can dish it out but when it all comes rushing back to you you pick up your ball and trot off home.....