Saint Charlie Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Clearly don't want to be here, hence not being picked and the murmurs they are waiting to leave. Well get ****ing rid of them then if they want to go. And if they want to/will be staying beyond Sept 1st play them. If they go, bring in a pacy striker who can combine with Lambert and trouble defences. This situation needs to be sorted one way or the other. We are losing at places like Swindon with international strikers warming the bench. Personally I hope they both go and we can bring in 2 strikers who are a bit different to what we have but something needs to be sorted with these two so Lambert can start forming a partnership with someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Wont make much difference who he forms a parnership with as the rest of the team create sod all anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 18 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 August, 2009 get rid? how are you planning to force someone to take them? Play them then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints Warrior Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Time wasters if they dont want to play. You would think they both want an easy chance of getting 15+ goals a season in Div 3....you just cant understand some players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintpat Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 The concern must be the effect they are having in the dressing room and the training ground. They don't want to be with us so every ounce of body language must be negative. If we have to get rid of them for nothing then I think the situation would be better than it is at present, their presence in the team can only have a disrupting effect. They need to go and they need to go NOW unless they are prepared to commit 100% to the team. The main concern of course, is that they are really just greedy, selfish barstewards who will not move unless they get the same, or more money. They are both prepared to sacrifice their place in the national team because they are unwilling to take a pay cut. They don't want to play for Saints because we're not in a good enough league(perfectly understandable), yet they are unwilling to move anywhere else if they have to take a pay cut. It's time for Leibher to show his money and worth. Sign another good striker and get Rasiak and Saga training on their own, away from the team and don't even play them in the reserves, just sit them on their backsides for half a season with no competitive play, then see if they REALLY want to play for their country and move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somptingsaint Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 "It's time for Leibher to show his money and worth. Sign another good striker and get Rasiak and Saga training on their own, away from the team and don't even play them in the reserves, just sit them on their backsides for half a season with no competitive play, then see if they REALLY want to play for their country and move." now this sounds like a plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Those two are the least of our trouble at the moment. We could have Drogba and Torres up front, they wont get the ball and we'll still let in set pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genk Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Those two are the least of our trouble at the moment. We could have Drogba and Torres up front, they wont get the ball and we'll still let in set pieces. Have to totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintpat Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Those two are the least of our trouble at the moment. We could have Drogba and Torres up front, they wont get the ball and we'll still let in set pieces. Actually I'm convinced for all the reasons I put above, that they are VERY much, 'much' of our trouble. Working with anyone, in any profession, who wants to leave and can't give a stuff about their job and who they work for, will quickly affect all the other staff around them and produce a complete negative effect. This will affect confidence and output in all the other staff, eventually no one will give a ****, particularly affecting the ones who do care but are not given the chance to perform as the troublesome staff are still getting better treatment than people who care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 18 August, 2009 Share Posted 18 August, 2009 Actually I'm convinced for all the reasons I put above, that they are VERY much, 'much' of our trouble. Working with anyone, in any profession, who wants to leave and can't give a stuff about their job and who they work for, will quickly affect all the other staff around them and produce a complete negative effect. This will affect confidence and output in all the other staff, eventually no one will give a ****, particularly affecting the ones who do care but are not given the chance to perform as the troublesome staff are still getting better treatment than people who care. Nope, disagree. There is no way you can pin this display (and judging by the timing of the OP I'm guessing that's the idea here) on those two not wanting to be here. Neither of them played until the 82nd minute and up until that point I could have picked 6 or 7 players who have put in far worse efforts than Marek and Rasiak recently. Our problems run much deeper than just a bit of bad attitude rubbing off on a couple of players. The team today was clueless, idealess and completely lacklusture. There are so many things we need to do before we worry about offloading our strike force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Actually I'm convinced for all the reasons I put above, that they are VERY much, 'much' of our trouble. Working with anyone, in any profession, who wants to leave and can't give a stuff about their job and who they work for, will quickly affect all the other staff around them and produce a complete negative effect. This will affect confidence and output in all the other staff, eventually no one will give a ****, particularly affecting the ones who do care but are not given the chance to perform as the troublesome staff are still getting better treatment than people who care. Whilst there is probably some truth in what you say, I don't agree for the simple reason that I'm sure most clubs have players that don't want to be there. Also, I can't comment on his performances away from home (as I've only listened to them) but to me Rasiak's looked pretty motivated at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrey1saint Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Have to totally agree Those two are the least of our trouble at the moment. We could have Drogba and Torres up front, they wont get the ball and we'll still let in set pieces. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 They'll both leave on transfer deadline day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Pinning the blame for last night's display on Saga & Rasiak wanting away isn't fully right IMHO. BUT you have a bunch of kids who have been pushed before they were ready and are struggling mentally. Then you take the two "so called superstars" who are on around 3x the wages of many of the kids who have the negative attitude body language and don't care about the group, then that becomes a drain on the morale and motivation of the group.... It shouldn't do, but it will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Clearly don't want to be here, hence not being picked and the murmurs they are waiting to leave. Well get ****ing rid of them then if they want to go. And if they want to/will be staying beyond Sept 1st play them. If they go, bring in a pacy striker who can combine with Lambert and trouble defences. This situation needs to be sorted one way or the other. We are losing at places like Swindon with international strikers warming the bench. Personally I hope they both go and we can bring in 2 strikers who are a bit different to what we have but something needs to be sorted with these two so Lambert can start forming a partnership with someone. I still can't understand this ........ If they don't want to play in Div 1 ... FINE ..... so don't PAY THEM WHY should we STILL be paying for SFA ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reib80 Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Actually I'm convinced for all the reasons I put above, that they are VERY much, 'much' of our trouble. Working with anyone, in any profession, who wants to leave and can't give a stuff about their job and who they work for, will quickly affect all the other staff around them and produce a complete negative effect. This will affect confidence and output in all the other staff, eventually no one will give a ****, particularly affecting the ones who do care but are not given the chance to perform as the troublesome staff are still getting better treatment than people who care. Whilst not directly related to this, I can relate to it from experience. When I was in the Marines in training you would get one or two guys who were desperate to leave (but you had to do a certain amount of time before you could leave). The problem with this is it spread like poison, real fast. They complained about things not going their way, how much they didnt wanna be there and generally 'moped' around. This spread through the troop bringing moral down. Now, I know this isn't a direct factor compared to Saints, but it just goes to show how it can bring down moral (even slightly)... and can affect performances from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Whilst not directly related to this, I can relate to it from experience. When I was in the Marines in training you would get one or two guys who were desperate to leave (but you had to do a certain amount of time before you could leave). The problem with this is it spread like poison, real fast. They complained about things not going their way, how much they didnt wanna be there and generally 'moped' around. This spread through the troop bringing moral down. Now, I know this isn't a direct factor compared to Saints, but it just goes to show how it can bring down moral (even slightly)... and can affect performances from others. I don't doubt that, but I think it's different in this situation. All clubs have players who want out and I doubt Rasiak and Saga are walking round moaning about how sh*t SFC is. As someone said, all clubs have 1 or 2 players who want out for one reason or another. Ronaldo and Tevez didn't do Man Utd any harm last season. Real Madrid have Van Nistelrooy and Huntelaar. Chelsea have won several trophies with Robben, Duff, Mutu, Crespo, Bogarde et al. sulking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 The thing I am concerned with, is that if this is Ras & Saga playing to effectively sell themselves in the shop window, what will happen if once the transfer window closes they are still here? Other than the Hearts games, Rasiaks performances have hardly set the world alight and Saga has been less useful than my nan would have been playing in the same position. I can only see them becoming completely disillousioned and not bothered if they dont get their move away and we will be stuck with 2 pre-maradonna's on big money who wont put into the cause. Rasiak is lazy so I do not see him thinking 'Ill roll up my sleeves and get stuck in until Jan', he will just think b*****ks, I didnt get my move, b***er it, ill sit back and get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_hill Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 I don't doubt that, but I think it's different in this situation. All clubs have players who want out and I doubt Rasiak and Saga are walking round moaning about how sh*t SFC is. As someone said, all clubs have 1 or 2 players who want out for one reason or another. Ronaldo and Tevez didn't do Man Utd any harm last season. Real Madrid have Van Nistelrooy and Huntelaar. Chelsea have won several trophies with Robben, Duff, Mutu, Crespo, Bogarde et al. sulking around. This is the post I am most in agreement with. Whilst the observations about attitude may be true, I think we are jumping to conclusions in our urgency to make sense of two poor team displays. Yes, they may want out but that doesn't automatically mean they are behaving totally unprofessionally on or off the pitch. Perhaps they have better ethics than that. (Yes I know that's unlikely with pro-footballers :-0. ) As has been noted, there were a whole bunch of players displaying poor body language in the last game, they don't all want out, they just lack the right frame of mind right now. Besides, bad attitude does not totally remove talent and Rasiak and Saga are still two of the best. I'm hoping that one or both of them will bag a couple, feel good about it, go on a run and have second thoughts about leaving. Of course, if I'm wrong and they ARE being totally negative and affecting the rest of the squad, then yes, punish them and sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 Interesting really, I don't think you can tar both with the same brush. Personally I prefer Saga and what he brings when motivated and fit. But he is clearly completely disinterested, evident from his body language during the half-time "warm up" by the 7 subs, and evident when he came onto the pitch. If someone makes a decent offer for Saga then quite honestly we should bite their hand off. We should also consider putting him on gardening leave so as not to disrupt the team. Rasiak however showed a different attitude last night. I am no great fan of the lazy lump, but all through the second half he was being very supportive of the team on the pitch, geeing them up, encouraging them and looking like part of the team. Clearly he was very frustrated by not being on the pitch, but he seemed to care. I think it unlikely that someone will come in with a decent offer and we should be making him feel wanted, and we can do that by playing him (for more than 10 minutes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjphilsaint Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 I still can't understand this ........ If they don't want to play in Div 1 ... FINE ..... so don't PAY THEM WHY should we STILL be paying for SFA ???? saints paid many "new signings" last year who played "SFA" skacel, forecast, pulis,smith, etc.. etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 The thing I am concerned with' date=' is that if this is Ras & Saga playing to effectively sell themselves in the shop window, what will happen if once the transfer window closes they are still here? Other than the Hearts games, Rasiaks performances have hardly set the world alight and Saga has been less useful than my nan would have been playing in the same position. I can only see them becoming completely disillousioned and not bothered if they dont get their move away and we will be stuck with 2 [b']pre-maradonna's[/b] on big money who wont put into the cause. Rasiak is lazy so I do not see him thinking 'Ill roll up my sleeves and get stuck in until Jan', he will just think b*****ks, I didnt get my move, b***er it, ill sit back and get paid. They're not that old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoakley Posted 19 August, 2009 Share Posted 19 August, 2009 I think if they are still wanting out we should sign a new striker as well otherwise we will be ****ed with patterson and lambert as patterson is a 3rd choice striker IMO for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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