Foreign Player Ruling

[Jeff Le Taxi]

Am i right in thinking there is a rule coming up about how many foreign players a team can field? when, if at all will this affect us? getting a bit worrying as we seem to be offloading English players and bringing in foreign nationals, also what is the score with Forte? i think hes english born but didnt he play for Barbados?

[Deppo]

I agree with Jeff Le Taxi. These foreign players are putting our english footballers out of jobs. And what is with this surname 'Forte'? That's not english!

 

I agree with Jeff Le Taxi.

[Jeff Le Taxi]

Deppo, do you sit on here 24/7 thinking who can i annoy next? you do have a sad pathetic life dont you!

[Jeff Le Taxi]

I couldnt care less WHAT his surname is you tool, fact is hes played for a foreign national team, i simply asked how that might affect the rules!

[Ludwig]

'Foreign' is wrt where their footballing development took place.

[Ludwig]

I believe I'd be correct in saying that Owen Hargreaves would certainly not count as 'home-grown' despite being English.

[Somewhere In Northam]

In Scandinavian folklore, trolls become defined as a particular type of being, generally held to be larger than humans and notably ugly.

[2] Numerous tales about trolls are recorded, in which they are frequently described as being extremely old, very strong, BUT SLOW AND DIM-WITTED. They are sometimes described as man-eaters and as TURNING TO STONE UPON CONTACT WITH SUNLIGHT.

[Jeff Le Taxi]

Bloody hell this rule is going to be hard to enforce, when does it come into force? going to be a bit of a selection headache for some managers, Saints even seem to be close to the cut off point. and if this is the trend where will the next cut off point be i wonder?

[brmbrm]

Deppo, do you sit on here 24/7 thinking who can i annoy next? you do have a sad pathetic life dont you!

 

Deppos posts are a bright ray of humorous sunshine, so leave off!

 

Keep up the good work Deppo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(I mean that in a non-homosexual way, you understand. In fact, there is no reason why you can't be female (apart from the perceptive,witty tone of your posts ). Or does this make me sound homophobic? I'll have to think about this....)

[Jeff Le Taxi]

Deppos posts are a bright ray of humorous sunshine, so leave off!

 

Keep up the good work Deppo

 

 

 

 

 

 

(I mean that in a non-homosexual way, you understand. In fact, there is no reason why you can't be female (apart from the perceptive,witty tone of your posts ). Or does this make me sound homophobic? I'll have to think about this....)

 

WTF! ............... wannabee

[SuperMikey]

You're right Ludwig, Owen Hargreaves is not home-grown. He was born and raised in Canada to Welsh and English parents, and was eligible for all 3 nations. He's the only capped England International to have never lived in the UK (when he won his first cap in 2001) and only the second to have won a cap for England while playing for a club not in the English leagues.

 

I wouldn't worry JLT, Forte is an English national but he qualifies to play for Barbados through his parents. He represented England at U19 level and has played in England all his career, so he is certainly home-grown.

[Deppo]

Deppo, do you sit on here 24/7 thinking who can i annoy next? you do have a sad pathetic life dont you!

 

Jeff, is your sad, pathetic little life getting you down again?

[Jeff Le Taxi]

Yes Deppo hence coming to you for counselling ! you stable, well adjusted human being with a life!

[The9]

You're right Ludwig, Owen Hargreaves is not home-grown. He was born and raised in Canada to Welsh and English parents, and was eligible for all 3 nations. He's the only capped England International to have never lived in the UK (when he won his first cap in 2001) and only the second to have won a cap for England while playing for a club not in the English leagues.

 

I wouldn't worry JLT, Forte is an English national but he qualifies to play for Barbados through his parents. He represented England at U19 level and has played in England all his career, so he is certainly home-grown.

 

As he's got a British passport he would have been eligible for Scotland and Northern Ireland as well if not for the gentlemen's agreement between the "home" FAs not to select players with a stronger claim on playing for the other "home nations".

 

Quite how that tallies with Vinnie Jones turning out for Wales I don't know, and I think they've dumped the agreement now in favour of following FIFA's rules - that an there not being any gentlemen left in football...

[Jeff Le Taxi]

You're right Ludwig, Owen Hargreaves is not home-grown. He was born and raised in Canada to Welsh and English parents, and was eligible for all 3 nations. He's the only capped England International to have never lived in the UK (when he won his first cap in 2001) and only the second to have won a cap for England while playing for a club not in the English leagues.

 

I wouldn't worry JLT, Forte is an English national but he qualifies to play for Barbados through his parents. He represented England at U19 level and has played in England all his career, so he is certainly home-grown.

 

So he has played for England AND Barbados, didnt think that was allowed?

[The9]

Oh, and just get some facts into this "Home Grown" debate, the Premier League Home Grown rules as taken from their website :

http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~2094341,00.html

 

A home grown player is defined as one who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association or the Welsh Football Association for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

 

For the purposes of this rule, the season is deemed to run from the date the first transfer window closes until the final match of the campaign.

In keeping with UEFA guidelines, an Under 21 player is defined as one who is under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences. For the 2010/11 campaign Under 21 players will have been born on or after 1st January 1989.

 

EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES

The 25-man squads must be submitted to the Premier League by 5pm on the day following the close of each transfer window. For the 2010/11 season the first window will close at 6pm on 31st August and final squads must be registered by 5pm on 1st September. Before then Clubs will not be required to name their squads and may select their teams from any registered players.

 

While the transfer windows are open, clubs may change their squads as many times as they want. However they will only be able to make alterations outside the windows if there are exceptional circumstances and the changes are approved by the Premier League board.

 

For example, if a club has two out of three goalkeepers injured they may be permitted to bring in a replacement under the guidelines drawn up by a specially formed working party.

 

Players in the 25-man squads who go out on loan to Football League clubs may not be replaced. However they may reclaim their place on their return.

 

Clubs do not have to name a full squad of 25 if they do not have that many contracted players and in this instance they may add free agents outside the transfer window. However if they have 25 eligible contracted players, they must be named.

 

Similarly, clubs do not have to name eight home grown players if they do not have that many but that would mean operating with a reduced squad.

 

The system will be simple enough to administer. Clubs will register their players via an online form which automatically flags up if they have named too many players who do not qualify as Home-Grown.

[david in sweden]

So he has played for England AND Barbados, didnt think that was allowed?

 

No-one can play for FULL internationals for two countries, but anything LESS than a full international doesn't count.

example; Nigel Quashie played for England U21 (in a former life ) but was later capped for Scotland because he had a Scottish grandmother, which is much clearer than the case of Tony Cascarino (born in England) but played several dozen games for Ireland? on the basis of an Irish grandmother (...who in truth - never existed).

 

Players can qualify for citizenship after 3 years residence. Some while back someone suggested the Englsih goalkeeping crisis

could be solved by a German-born Arsenal ? 'keeper obtaining citizenship - because he'd been living in the UK... for 5 years.

[stu0x]

Bloody hell this rule is going to be hard to enforce, when does it come into force? going to be a bit of a selection headache for some managers, Saints even seem to be close to the cut off point. and if this is the trend where will the next cut off point be i wonder?

 

As you've started the thread by outlining that you don't know what the rule is, how on earth would you know how difficult it will be to enforce (or to adhere to, which is what I think you meant)?

 

In summary, a player who has spent a total of 3 years at any English/Welsh clubs prior to turning 21 is 'homegrown'. It has nothing to do with nationality. Fabregas is home grown, for example. There is a limit on non-homegrown players in the matchday squad.

 

These are PL rules expected to trickle down into the Football League. If you have a quick think about teams such as City, Arsenal, and Chelsea, and the fact that they are meeting the criteria, you would quickly come to the (correct) assumption that it will be of no concern whatsoever to Saints.

[The9]

No-one can play for FULL internationals for two countries, but anything LESS than a full international doesn't count.

example; Nigel Quashie played for England U21 (in a former life ) but was later capped for Scotland because he had a Scottish grandmother, which is much clearer than the case of Tony Cascarino (born in England) but played several dozen games for Ireland? on the basis of an Irish grandmother (...who in truth - never existed).

 

Players can qualify for citizenship after 3 years residence. Some while back someone suggested the Englsih goalkeeping crisis

could be solved by a German-born Arsenal ? 'keeper obtaining citizenship - because he'd been living in the UK... for 5 years.

 

Yeah they can... Alfredo di Stefano, Robert Prosinecki, about half of the Ukrainian and Croatian sides of 1993, Nemanja Vidic, etc.

 

And I'm pretty sure the residency quaification is 5 years, cos having moved to Southampton in 2006 I'm still waiting another 4 months to become eligible for England, lol.

 

EDIT : Looks like the 5 year thing is what covers British nationals wishing to switch within the UK (para 17, rather than the "2 year" residency in para 16 below)

Edited 1 February, 2011 by The9

[The9]

Boringly, here are the rules, from FIFA's statutes : http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/01/29/85/71/fifastatuten2010_e.pdf

 

"VII. ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR REPRESENTATIVE TEAMS

 

15 Principle

1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on

residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of

the Association of that country.

2. With the exception of the conditions specifi ed in article 18 below, any Player

who has already participated in a match (either in full or in part) in an official

competition of any category or any type of football for one Association may not

play an international match for a representative team of another Association.

 

16 Nationality entitling players to represent

more than one Association

1. A Player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than

one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international

match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant

nationality, he fulfi ls at least one of the following conditions:

(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of

the relevant Association;

© His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the

relevant Association;

(d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association

for at least two years.

 

2. Regardless of par. 1 above, Associations sharing a common nationality may

make an agreement under which item (d) of par. 1 of this article is deleted

completely or amended to specify a longer time limit. Such agreements shall be

lodged with and approved by the Executive Committee.

 

17 Acquisition of a new nationality

Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who

has not played international football in accordance with art. 15 par. 2 shall

be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the

following conditions:

 

(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;

(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of

the relevant Association;

© His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the

relevant Association;

(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age

of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

 

18 Change of Association

 

1. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new

nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams

due to nationality, he may, only once, request to change the Association for

which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another

country of which he holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:

 

(a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an offi cial

competition at “A” international level for his current Association, and at

the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match

in an official competition for his current Association, he already had the

nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.

(b) He is not permitted to play for his new Association in any competition

in which he has already played for his previous Association.

 

2. If a Player who has been fielded by his Association in an international

match in accordance with art. 15 par. 2 permanently loses the nationality

of that country without his consent or against his will due to a decision

by a government authority, he may request permission to play for another

Association whose nationality he already has or has acquired.

 

3. Any Player who has the right to change Associations in accordance with

par. 1 and 2 above shall submit a written, substantiated request to the FIFA

general secretariat. The Players’ Status Committee shall decide on the request.

 

The procedure will be in accordance with the Rules Governing the Procedures

of the Players’ Status Committee and the Dispute Resolution Chamber. Once

the Player has filed his request, he is not eligible to play for any representative

team until his request has been processed."

 

Ho hum.

Edited 1 February, 2011 by The9

[Jeff Le Taxi]

Feck me thats complicated, i have a headache now!

[The9]

No-one can play for FULL internationals for two countries, but anything LESS than a full international doesn't count.

example; Nigel Quashie played for England U21 (in a former life ) but was later capped for Scotland because he had a Scottish grandmother, which is much clearer than the case of Tony Cascarino (born in England) but played several dozen games for Ireland? on the basis of an Irish grandmother (...who in truth - never existed).

 

Players can qualify for citizenship after 3 years residence. Some while back someone suggested the Englsih goalkeeping crisis

could be solved by a German-born Arsenal ? 'keeper obtaining citizenship - because he'd been living in the UK... for 5 years.

 

Both Almunia and Carlo Cudicini have been put forward as solutions to England's keeper "problem" based on long-term residency.

[The9]

Feck me thats complicated, i have a headache now!

 

Its all in there though, even if it is complicated by FIFA's recognition of nations that the UN doesn't regard as states, (eg England, for a start!), and different states having very different laws on passport-holding, residency and nationality.

 

Di Stefano made his change long before these rules were in place, he played for Argentina, Colombia AND Spain !

Prosinecki played for Yugoslavia and then Croatia, covered under 16.1a/b/c (he or one of his parents or grandparents was born in Croatia, though Croatia was part of Yugoslavia until 1993 for footballing purposes).

Half the Ukrainian team of 1992 had already played for Russia (same rules as Prosinecki and the rest of the Croatians) - and Andrei Kanchelskis, a Ukrainian, continued to play for Russia.

As for Nemanja Vidic, he's played for both Serbia and Montenegro AND Serbia.

 

As we know also, Kevin Prince Boateng and Jerome Boateng (brothers) play for Ghana and Germany respectively due to parents not just birthplace. And loads of the German-eligible players in the Bundesliga are Turkish born and vice-versa. "Turkey's" Colin Kazim-Richards (aka Kazim Kazim) was born in Leytonstone with a Turkish mother.

 

Its all of the Brazilians who've become Japanese and Qatari "by residence" you want to start looking out for, though...

 

Mind you, this is all about international football, and has sod all to do with how many players Saints can field. The home grown thing (rules up top somewhere) is, as people have said, only a Premier League rule, and anyone registered for any team in England or Wales for 3 years before they are 21 qualifies - and even then you only need 8 of them in the squad.

Edited 1 February, 2011 by The9

[stu0x]

As we know also, Kevin Prince Boateng and Jerome Boateng (brothers) play for Ghana and Germany respectively due to parents not just birthplace.

Indeed. Ironically, Jerome Boateng was born in Ghana and plays for Germany, whilst Skate Boateng was born in Germany and plays for Ghana.

[Pancake]

Both Almunia and Carlo Cudicini have been put forward as solutions to England's keeper "problem" based on long-term residency.

 

Im sure they would have the same issues that Arteta had last year? Pretty sure the Home Nations GA is still in effect.