Saint in Paradise Posted 1 October, 2012 Share Posted 1 October, 2012 As of today, wheel clamping on private land has been outlawed in England and Wales! You can still be ticketed, but that gives you a chance to choose whether to challenge it or not, rather than being subjected to a forcible protection racket. It's nice to see that the government have actually followed through on this item from the "Freedom Bill" P.S. Just one note of caution: Some little known by-laws do exist which give certain landowners the right to manage their parking in any way they choose. These include some car parks at railway stations, airports and port authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 1 October, 2012 Share Posted 1 October, 2012 If you get a pcn... Just ignore it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 2 October, 2012 Share Posted 2 October, 2012 What seems to have gone unnoticed is that the government is to change the law so that the registered keeper of the vehicle is liable for any fines, not the driver, so the old excuse of "I didn't know who was driving" will no longer apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 2 October, 2012 Share Posted 2 October, 2012 What seems to have gone unnoticed is that the government is to change the law so that the registered keeper of the vehicle is liable for any fines, not the driver, so the old excuse of "I didn't know who was driving" will no longer apply. but, will you be legally bound to pay a PCN..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 2 October, 2012 Share Posted 2 October, 2012 but, will you be legally bound to pay a PCN..? I think that it's treated like a debt, so baliffs could be involved and it could affect your credit rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 2 October, 2012 Share Posted 2 October, 2012 I think that it's treated like a debt, so baliffs could be involved and it could affect your credit rating. ah..tits...until now, I would just ignore the PCN as there was no legal right to pay it a fine on the other hand...is different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 2 October, 2012 Share Posted 2 October, 2012 ah..tits...until now, I would just ignore the PCN as there was no legal right to pay it a fine on the other hand...is different I am fairly sure only public bodies can levy 'fines', civil operators can issue charge notices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 Something similar was on watchdog last week, with travel lodge handing out £100 fines to anyone they suspected had been smoking in the room. Loads of dinlos got scared and paid the fine. The end result was that travel lodge would have to prove it was you that had been smoking and not the person before you or even that anyone had smoked at all. This would be pretty much impossible. They would also have to take you to court to prove it. I would never pay a fine unless it was from either the police or the council. Any private company can do one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 3 October, 2012 Share Posted 3 October, 2012 What seems to have gone unnoticed is that the government is to change the law so that the registered keeper of the vehicle is liable for any fines, not the driver, so the old excuse of "I didn't know who was driving" will no longer apply. Courtesy cars? Hire cars? Doesn't make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 I think that it's treated like a debt, so baliffs could be involved and it could affect your credit rating. Nay nay and thrice nay. How can it be a debt when you have never signed a credit agreement? The ONLY people who can legally fine you are the police and the council. All the pcn companies can do is send you a speculative invoice, dressed up as a fine, in the hope you will pay. Just as TDD says, ignore, don't give even give them the pleasure of a snotty reply, as tempting as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Nay nay and thrice nay. How can it be a debt when you have never signed a credit agreement? The ONLY people who can legally fine you are the police and the council. All the pcn companies can do is send you a speculative invoice, dressed up as a fine, in the hope you will pay. Just as TDD says, ignore, don't give even give them the pleasure of a snotty reply, as tempting as it is. You don't need to have signed anything. Essentially when a driver of a vehicle drives into a car park and parks his car he is implied to have accepted the offer for parking on the terms of the offeror (the parking company or land owner). A contract is formed and therefore the contract can be broken (or breached). This is on the condition that the charges and conditions are clearly displayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 You don't need to have signed anything. Essentially when a driver of a vehicle drives into a car park and parks his car he is implied to have accepted the offer for parking on the terms of the offeror (the parking company or land owner). A contract is formed and therefore the contract can be broken (or breached). This is on the condition that the charges and conditions are clearly displayed. everything I read about PCNs online tells me there is no legal obligation to pay...they would have to take me to court to pay a £60....which will cost them a great deal more to do.... I have ignored a PCN in southampton from earlier on in the year....after about 2 months of letters that got more and more threatening...they just stopped...and researching online....many many people do the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerRamjet Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 Essentially when a driver of a vehicle drives into a car park and parks his car... I might not be parking. I might be tresspassing. One way presumptive contracts are notoriously difficult to enforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 4 October, 2012 Share Posted 4 October, 2012 You don't need to have signed anything. Essentially when a driver of a vehicle drives into a car park and parks his car he is implied to have accepted the offer for parking on the terms of the offeror (the parking company or land owner). A contract is formed and therefore the contract can be broken (or breached). This is on the condition that the charges and conditions are clearly displayed. Ok then lets put it another way. For it to become an enforcable debt a parking company would have to prove to a court that your parking on their land has cost them the £100 or whatever it is they are trying to charge you. Not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 10 October, 2012 Share Posted 10 October, 2012 You don't need to have signed anything. Essentially when a driver of a vehicle drives into a car park and parks his car he is implied to have accepted the offer for parking on the terms of the offeror (the parking company or land owner). A contract is formed and therefore the contract can be broken (or breached). This is on the condition that the charges and conditions are clearly displayed. Sorry, you can't legally enter into a contract by implication, only by action. That is why when you sign up for anything online the terms and conditions come up with a yes/no, or a statement that by continuing, (pressing next) you agree. Their reliance is on the fact that they don't give you any recourse to refuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 You don't need to have signed anything. Essentially when a driver of a vehicle drives into a car park and parks his car he is implied to have accepted the offer for parking on the terms of the offeror (the parking company or land owner). A contract is formed and therefore the contract can be broken (or breached). This is on the condition that the charges and conditions are clearly displayed. The only authorities that have any legal basis to fine you are the police and local councils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 11 October, 2012 Share Posted 11 October, 2012 Sorry, you can't legally enter into a contract by implication, only by action. That is why when you sign up for anything online the terms and conditions come up with a yes/no, or a statement that by continuing, (pressing next) you agree. Their reliance is on the fact that they don't give you any recourse to refuse. The law is actually surprisingly simple: contracts can be written but they don’t have to be. When you enter a private car park there is normally a large sign at the entrance. This is giving you notice of the terms and conditions attached to the car park. By driving into the car park you are accepting these terms of contract. You are now contractually obliged to fulfill the contract. In the event you do not perform, for example, if you stay longer than allowed, the car parking company will try to impose a penalty on you. Basically saying, pay X amount for breach of contract. However, it has been found (in previous court cases) that penalty clauses in contracts are unlawful at Common Law and any such clauses appearing in a contract are illegal and void. The rest of the contract is still binding. Courts determine whether a liquidated damages clause is a penalty clause by assessing whether the clause was a genuine attempt at estimating potential loss. So, if the loss was £10, you should only be liable for that £10 plus a reasonable admin fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintchris23 Posted 25 November, 2012 Share Posted 25 November, 2012 You can still legally clamp a vehicle but you cannot charge a 'fine' unless registered with SIG (I think it's them). I still clamp people that use my car park, I just make them wait until the end of my working day until I release it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now