Fabrice29

https://archive.ph/1M4EL

Are we all in agreement it's not the manager, tactics or formation yet?

That's on the manager though isn't it. And I suspect the manager wants him on to win free kicks and drag us up the pitch which makes sense. But once again I want to reiterate anyone having a pop at this kid for his cameo performances in a side that is a) terrible and b) set up completely the opposite that he has learnt and is good at, is genuinely deluded

He's played right wing most of the season.

They had 6 defenders out to be fair.

Not convinced Cooper takes a job in the Championship considering he'd be not far away from getting any jobs at the bottom of the PL next season, especially if a promoted team starts badly but who knows. As a side note, I don't really get the "he's done it before so why wouldn't we be interested?" criteria some seem to have. Up until this season, over the last 10 years I think the winners of the Championship has been won by a manager new to the league except for Farke with Norwich. Cooper himself has two play off defeats to his name and then the promotion being referenced with Forest. The idea you need to know it to get out of it isn't true and certainly the idea that people who have got out of it would be in some way an obvious appointment isn't true. Much rather we get someone who has joined up thinking with the decision makers at the club, has a proven track record of galvanising squads of players they've worked with and will actually be motivated to grow with the club on a journey (however short or long) rather than dropping down to do us a favour in some way.

And just out of interest how many people looked at it and didn’t like it?

This would not be nice. Perfectly standard thinking on this site btw. At least join it up ffs

I've no doubt he is tbh, just think a 19 year old goalkeeper in a struggling side probably isn't ideal. That said it appears to be a decision made by Rohl to blood him even though they have a more experienced keeper so fair enough.

Think having Callum Paterson up front and Shea Charles younger brother in goal is all the context you need tbh.

Think strikers generally look lazy when asked to defend in a low block. If your whole defensive plan is to compress space then having strikers who chase stuff down for the purpose of looking like they give a shit is counter productive. Even more so when they probably aren't physically capable of doing it. Be positionally disciplined and make runs from deep when the CB's have the ball and chuck it over the top. Low risk, low reward football and when it doesn't work out it will naturally attract criticism, especially individually.

For a teacher, your lack of empathy or consideration for what a human being might be wanting or motivated by is quite incredible. If it helps then on FM you're going to struggle to get performances out of someone who has an unhappy notification next to their name, has a preferred position which you are refusing to play him in and who you've loaned out and attempted to replace in the past but unlike FM life isn't possible to hardwire so the level of player is guaranteed goals if you put him in a league he's over powered for.

MartinBall tactics ffs Good quality stuff. Btw a quick look at WhoScored.com shows Blackburn as the 2nd highest possession based team in the league the season Armstrong scored 28 goals. They were shot heavy and he played predominantly with Harvey Elliot and BBD either side of him. Which isn't a million miles away from MartinBall tactics presumably.

Ticking boxes literally is data. Anyway, other than having got Forest promoted (he's also failed to get a team promoted from the Championship btw) are you able to articulate why you like Cooper as an obvious choice? I'm genuinely intrigued, not being combative.

You cant motivate people with this outlook. They are human beings. A large reason he performed so well last season is a) he played in a way of playing that was set up to suit him, b) he bought into the manager and journey of getting to the PL and having a crack at it with this team and c) like you said he played in a different position now. Lots has changed since then. A) Next season presumably we wont be playing the same way. B) If everyone is telling him we need him to score the goals to get us to the league that we've already bombed him out of and everyone assumes we will again, he will be less motivated. C) He's been quite open about wanting to play as a striker not a right winger, both himself and Martin were on record about him not being chuffed about playing out there. The biggest issue we'll have is getting him off the wage bill as presumably he's on a decent wedge here compared to most other Championship clubs but keeping him around because he performed in different circumstances last time we were in the Championship makes just as much sense as employing Cooper because he too got a completely different team promoted a while back, which is something you're criticising in another thread. We have to aspire to do better than players who have failed us and that cycle simply has to start this summer. We cannot rely on motivating a broken squad again, especially as it's not believable anymore.

Agreed but Fraser and Sulemana play in a different position to SAA so there's no path blocked there. Cornet and Diaz I suppose for periods but not sure starting the season believing two players who had scored goals in the PL before would be a better bet than an 18 year kid is a massive crime. Just like I'm not convinced the kid scoring a couple of goals in March and April in France is proof he'd have been better in the PL prior to January. Not sure it's quite as simple as being mismanaged or "should have kept him". The lad was set back by our relegation two seasons ago and the signings of Cornet and Diaz and Brooks last year are all result of the club not being able to blood too many youngsters at once because they needed immediate results. The lad is a victim of that and losing a DOF who could oversee recruitment with a long term view.

Is wanting a manager with experience of getting promoted out of the Championship being on their CV not data driven nonsense?

This is a really daft way to judge managers fwiw.

It's probably worth remembering that Russell Martin didn't criticise Spurs for playing out the back tbh. In fact here's the video where you can judge for yourself whether he's criticising Spurs for playing out the back or whether he's questioning the decisions made when to and whilst doing so. Tottenham Hotspur vs Bournemouth: Jamie Carragher and Russell Martin break down how Cherries' press caused chaos for Spurs! | Football News | Sky Sports

There’s an arguement that if he wanted to go down the German football route he’d had found himself a job there instead of Wednesday. Don’t think you pick up a job at the bottom of the English Championship unless you see it as your best route to impress teams in the English PL personally. Might have changed his ambitions or preferences though or I might be way off the mark (I’ve tee’d up the obvious response for you..)

You remain convinced that someone you’ve barely seen play would be better than the bunch of players you have seen play and struggle. Which sums up nicely where are our squad is at this season really. If Wood had gone out on loan and Edward’s had been put into a poor team then it would be the other way round.

Well there's been 6 over 2 seasons in the PL. I think blaming managers and style is such an easy cop out and doesn't actually tackle the root cause of the issue. The idea that we're losing again so it must be the style and manager is exactly what leads us into a 3rd manager in a season again. Yeah I think you're bang on here. Don't actually think having a style is an issue, I'm personally in the camp of we should be having one instead of "adaptable" but the key is recruitment and patience and then having a manager to implement it/and or help themselves whilst finding the time to implement it. Don't think we've had enough of any of those things at this level over the past two attempts. Players not good enough, bad results, managers getting stroppy/and or stubborn and recruitment done to pacify them before very quickly binning them off and doing something different. Now we've finally replaced Wilcox I'm hoping we'll go back to some joined up, long term thinking again. Going into the PL without anyone heading that up was a terrible idea and just resulted in us attacking the season which a bunch of players the manager naturally felt loyal too but also was full of players we'd seen fail at this level before. We really need someone to be thinking with a much bigger and more objective overview of things and hopefully Spors can be it.

How many styles and managers will we have to go through in the Prem to establish that they aren’t the root of the problem in your mind out of interest?

Yeah I really wouldn’t trust a word Lambert says anymore. How’s his talking to water going?

Wouldn’t rule Carrick out if he fancies a change of scenery but I’d say most signs point to Rohl.