Fabrice29

What are you on about? My thoughts on the previous manager and this one are exactly the same, hampered by the quality of the players and neither at sole fault for the season.

In terms of money on a balance sheet I'm not qualified to say where it'll be made back, I'm not entirely sure any money on a transfer is specifically squared off on a balance sheet but you are probably right, a few quid on a loan isn't going to necessary be paid off by the end of the season. But, I think it's about more than that, even from an ownership point of you. I've argued this previously in this thread so probably saying similar things but 17 games is a long time, if the owners show apathy to the rest of the season then so does everyone else. Manager, players, fans. It all translate to a toxic atmosphere in the ground. Both times thats appeared to have happened previously the owners have sacked managers which is even worse business. I doubt they'd want to sack Juric again before the end of the season, but I don't think it's completely off the table if we lose another 10 games on the trot for example. Obviously I'm talking extremes, I don't think we'll lose 10 games in a row and think we can probably plod along until the end of the season now but how about our reputation. Apart from the obvious of going down without a fight, we're a club who prides itself on being a place you can come to and be given a chance if you're not elsewhere, I dont think dismissing opportunities to do that in any window is particularly good business. A good loan move for someone now can present further chances down the line. So yeah, maybe in a terms of strictly looking at the balance sheet then I suspect very rarely do loan moves mean good business and I'm sure there's plenty of reasons why it's a bad idea and maybe the ownership fall on that side of the arguement and we don't do anything, but I do feel there are benefits to at least trying to improve over the next few months as well and putting up some sort of fight. You never know, we might win a few games and find ourselves within touching distance too...I'm talking in extremes again Eh?

lol you must feel like a twat

Assume he means this https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/32156019/tyler-dibling-quit-southampton-academy-chelsea/amp/

Who are all the good ones SR got rid of out of interest and how they getting on now?

Better results are better for business. Money, atmosphere, reputation and whatever else you can think of would be improved by better results. It makes no sense to spend the next 17 games in the PL preparing for a season to get us back into the PL. We are here now and whatever the outcome attempting to be competitive in it would be good.

To improve the team for the next 17 games we all have to sit through maybe?

2 goals and 6 assists for David Brooks last season for us btw. Considering he was a end of January signing and his only more productive seasons so far are ones he's played more minutes in, I'd say he did pretty well, despite the weird narrative on here he was a waste of a squad space.

Example given - Someone who says 18 year old who cost €5m is 19 and cost £5m.

I’m holding out major praise for the kid until he starts doing it against deep defences and teams that aren’t set up one against one against him. Sunday will be interesting. I think he’s put in the sort of displays we saw yesterday before, including Liverpool last season then failed to back it up. Hopefully Juric can help him back them up this time.

I don’t disagree, in fact I’ve preached for a while now that the club is being hampered by the quality of players at this level. I do think the dismissing of some guys who have produced for us is a bit harsh though, especially when others that haven’t are being lauded on more than one other threads here but it is time to start being ruthless about some of these guys.

Yes mate, the physical output required has gone up since the new guy has come in because the style of football is different. What the manager consistently alluded to last night was poor game management which is the same as the previous managers at this level, including Jones btw who got laughed at because he said this team struggled mentally when playing against 10 men. Quite a few of the players from then also still remain in the squad at the same problems persist. But fitness did get mentioned as well so let’s all focus on that some more, because it’s easier.

I don’t necessarily disagree although I do think it’s all a bit much of a muchness arguing over which slightly out his depth midfielder comes on and then concluding the one that does is the worst player we’ve ever had. However I would just kindly point out that the reason we are in this league is because Smallbone produced a killer pass in the crucial playoff final and a goal in the semi and produced further goals and assists against our closest rivals Leeds throughout the season. He’s nowhere near that ‘no brainier’ shouldn’t be near the squad you’re making out. There’s just quite simply levels to this league.

Yeah you can lay that as Martins door for sure, amongst other things he can be blamed for of course. Although I’m not overly sure the players are/were unfit actually but it’s a nice and easy line to use by anyone. I think the players are being asked to play a much more aggressive and physical style of football with less emphasis on keeping the ball and that naturally requires more physical output which will take time to get used to. I would also point out that half our players yesterday were asked to do that under previous management in this league and it still resulted in relegation. At some point it’s not just about actual fitness.

I’m not sure instructing someone to do something so extremely as ‘every single time ’ is a great coaching instruction. Not least because it would negate goals like we conceded yesterday and chances we created yesterday when a short pass back a darting run can be combined for a one two but the sentiment of your point stands, he has his qualities and should focus on them but until it translates into productivity then there’s only so long it can be persisted with. Hopefully Juric persists because it produces something rather than having to turn elsewhere like others have had to.

Apart from the fact that Sulemana put in exactly the same performance as last night against Liverpool in the cup last year under Martin, is your argument really that an attacker couldn’t thrive in a lesser league despite getting the double the minutes and starts as others who did more than him and despite the team scoring quite a lot of goals, because of the tactics?

They both had better offers which is probably quite a big part of it.

Yeah okay mate, he’s talented for sure but he’s not been ignored. He played 25 times in the league last season, 0 goals. Doubled the minutes and starts of Rothwell and more than Mara, both who scored more than him. He even put in some decent performances last season but fails to do it consistently and failed to produce goals or assists. Again, I’m happy to back him to do well now especially in the absence of anything else but let’s not rewrite history.

Don’t think it’s this to be fair, I think it’s more the teams he’s played against suit him. United came up the field and went man to man by playing Yoro over Maguire and Sulemana enjoys and thrives in those conditions. His real challenge is coming up against low blocks.

No way Forest leave the space United did behind their defence so will be a completely different game to yesterday. Will be two teams desperately trying to draw the other up the field.

Just the 3 managers who couldn’t get anything out of Sulemana since he’s been here btw. He’s had runs in the team including games where he’s played well like last night. When he’s played well over a long period and actually delivered some goals and assists on a reasonable rate for a team in the bottom of the PL, then some credit can be given but nobody needs to retract anything for pointing out his productivity levels have been appalling.

‘Sorry sir, I know you’ve been impressed in training by him but I promise you he’s ineffectual. Now if you could just look at all the other ineffectual players on your bench and choose one of them instead that would satisfy Saintsweb’

You don’t need to be weird mate but you probably should recognise whatever manager we have this bunch of players will flatter to deceive, capitulate and lose regularly at this level. The good news is we’re not far away from getting some wins based on last night and hopefully this manager will eventually install some better confidence and calmness under pressure, or maybe find a striker to finish games off, neither of which the previous manager could at this level.

Umm, I think my point all season long was that maybe Martin wasn’t the source of the problems and capitulations and the players not being up to the level was always going to continue whether we changed him or not. You can rewrite history all you like if it makes you feel better but it doesn’t mean you’ll ever be right.

All just semantics at this point. It’s a squad game management issue, not individuals. ‘Should have subbed on this ineffectual player instead of that ineffectual player’