Fabrice29

He wasn’t very good under the two managers previously either. One of which signed him and played tactics similar to his strengths. I’m all for judging him going forward, I was just pointing out that we shouldn’t rewrite history.

If I wanted to pathetically defend RM I'd be in the thread titled with his name quoting you from last season every time you said we wouldn't be promoted with him in charge. As it happens, I came into this thread to just point out TP hasn't been very good up until now and isn't some hard done by soul so keep being wrong hun xoxox

Keep up the good work mate.

The Turkish transfer window closed mid September and he made various substitute appearances throughout October and November before starting against Liverpool which for someone who didn't play in pre season because of the aforementioned plan to leave, seems reasonable so yeah, I agree, good point.

Right, well when you've decided you think the time is right to receive the punishment then give the club an email and inform them of the business plan you've uncovered. Then just copy in the FA and I'm sure they'll oblige and apply the punishment right on cue and definitely wont apply complex and confusing investigations, rules and punishments that will leave everyone baffled. Fool proof.

I think I'm insulting people because despite posting the quote of TP saying that RM encouraged him, people still think he discouraged him.

Right. Now lets get you to realise that going from 6 points to - 6 points is not the genius tactic that you seem to think it is and we can all get back to living lives that most people would dream of.

I think what you mean is teams who make mistakes playing it around at the back, which is a perfectly valid point but you're not actually saying that, so you just sound stupid because I can assure you every single team in this league plays it around at the back, including the league leaders.

I have zero idea what point you're trying to make now, I think you've got yourself into a weird knot. Martin clearly told him he wanted him to stay and he would get chances, TP decided he wanted to leave anyway (which I don't actually have an issue with btw), so I understand why Martin might spend the summer/August trying to find a replacement and why others (who produced for him last season and have produced in the PL before unlike TP) were ahead of him. If you can point to evidence that not only did you clamour for TP to be in the side at the end of the Turkish transfer when it turned out he wasn't leaving but also knew that he was going to be the superstar this messageboard thinks he is after the West Ham game then by all means I'm happy to bow down to your footballing greatness. Otherwise, I'm going to continue to think you're a numpty who spent all last season telling us we wouldn't be promoted and convincing yourself you didn't enjoy it.

I didn't say Martin gave him assurances he would get chances, the player himself said it. I justified those chances being delayed. If you're going to keep pressing on the topic then I suggest being factual would help.

Playing the ball around the back being a fad and teams that do it are struggling is on a par with suggesting we should take a 10 point deduction, presumably in order to ultimately get more points for stupidity.

I would again point out he was behind players that had produced for the manager the season before and players the manager had signed because they'd produced in this very league before, unlike TP. Anyway, we're going around in circles. I'm not convinced the performances now of TP are evidence that he should have played earlier, especially considering his performances for us before but some of you might think they are, I just don't remember people clamouring for it before and feel like people are rewriting history.

On the basis that we're discussing TP, his treatment of him as per his own comments is telling him he will get a chance here if he stays, but player seeks a move away and is therefore down the pecking order behind last seasons top scorer and a new signing who scored some goals in the PL last season, something TP didn't do for us the season before. Its hardly the biggest crime in the world and like you say there is plenty of other reasons to have a pop at RM but this really isn't one of them. Again, lets not rewrite history based on a couple of decent games now.

"I just wanted to leave where I could play more. But he actually spoke to me saying he wanted me to stay" - If we're directly quoting from the echo. I just don't like the rewriting of history. Martin wanting to replace Onuachu and Onuachu wanting to leave this summer are both perfectly reasonable considering the lad has failed to perform for us (up until now if you like). Just because he's worked his way back into contention and put in a couple of decent performances (without yet scoring a goal) I don't think that means anyone is a fraud for not rating Onuachu before now. If Martin is a fraud for that then so are a lot of people in this thread over the past two seasons.

He wanted to leave this season too.

Eligible but injured.

I was defending Martin because he was hampered by not having a goal scorer. I’ll defend Juric for the same reasons. I’m also not sure 1 game is enough to make wild conclusions about player improvements just as I’m sure people wouldn’t make wild conclusions about the players who were poor yesterday declining under the new manager. That said, I enjoyed us having a physical threat up top which is something we’ve lacked since last season.

A lack of quality goal scorers is a problem that will transcend any manager, style or vibe.

Something different to think about maybe but not sure how concerned they would be about a guy who has yet to score for us over our top scorer last and this season. Anyway, pretty dire talking point tbf and by far the biggest thing we need to address in January.

I wholeheartedly agree and have done so for quite a while. He's not very good either is probably the simple answer.

I agree and that is why I said I was pleased to see Ramsdale call it out.

Smacking it long to the smallest players on the pitch is silly by almost any logic. I don't think deliberately giving the ball away in the opponents half worked for us last time we did it and don't think it's sensible now either. Thankfully, Ramsdale himself seem to call it out after the game because neither he, other players or the new manager will want them to do it. Yes, not giving the ball away in our own area was always going to help us.

I'm not sure thats true. Rest of what you've said is spot on but ABK was good the season we went down, he just had some injury issues and was in a badly managed team whilst being young and playing in the PL for the first time. If he's at his best, fully fit and fully committed in terms of actually wanting to play (even if it is just to impress someone enough so he can leave) then great but they are all big ifs right now.

26% pass success for Ramsdale if we’re being factual.

With masterminds like you on here? Feels stupid if so. Anyway, I’m glad you’ve settled on who you think I am now. 3rd time lucky maybe.