californiasaint

Well a disenfranchised Captain who drags down the morale of the team is never a good thing and then there's recurrent injury risk, can always wind up another JRod after one thing goes because it puts stress on all the others. But as others have pointed out given that this is a WC year there's a good chance he'll be on his best behavior...

Mane was told he was not going during the Jan window and rapidly began showing signs of disinterest, including being late for a meeting (even suspended for a match by Koeman IIRC). Then he proceeded to not score for almost four months before going on a tear against top flight clubs during the run in as the summer window approached. I really don't think it's coincidence that a player of his caliber suddenly dries up for four months without a little effort on his part...

If he is not sold we are heading toward a Mane situation all over again. Doesn't care about the team performance, only shows up for the big games/moments and plays cautiously for the rest of it so he doesn't get injured before his big move. Even worse now that it's a defender. And a captain.

Letting VVD rot is cutting off the nose to spite the face. Take the dosh, buy two more players, and hope you're doing this again next season because that means it's working.

To be fair, the masses are the ones paying for the season tickets, and they appear to be willing to do so regardless of the product on the field, so there's something to be said for keeping them happy even if it means shooting the team's forward progress in the foot. If VVD goes for an astronomical price somewhere outside of this window I will happily eat my hat. I just don't think it's statistically likely, and the club could squander a massive chance at acquiring very valuable reinvestment funds. And for what? Third post for the day. Try not to get too upset while I'm gone!

When teams have operating budgets that literally dwarf yours in order to sustainably compete with them you must be willing to spend. Develop a competitive team and pay high wages so that the players actually want to be there, which requires developing a deep enough team to compete in Europe/Champions, which requires investing and re-investing. VVD / Mane / etc would be far less interested in leaving if the Saints had made it to Europa/Champions. This does not happen overnight, and more important, it does not happen with just one man. And it especially does not happen when you lower reinvestment value by taking meaningless principled statements. A culture of winning is the best a club can do and even then it may not be enough. Barcelona just said they weren't going to sell Neymar. Look how that turned out! If the board sells after saying they are not going to sell, at any price, to any team, they lose credibility. You are raising the sub issue -- now players will come to negotiate and demand shorter term higher value contracts if they're going to play for the Saints or else they'll walk! The entire argument presupposes a requirement to sell at the highest price, which I believe is this window. That may be nonsense, but it's my position! If VVD sits out the season, damages the team environment, and leaves for a paltry sum next year, which is all entirely on the table, you think the board has played this perfectly? In my mind perfect is getting way more money than VVD is worth and signing some exciting players who give us a chance to crack Europa/Champions this season. (Which I do not think is happening with/without VVD.)

I see mistakes all over this transaction. Unless the board is willing to pay to play with the big clubs, then the decision must be to sell VVD at the highest price in order to reinvest the funds in the club. Holding on to a piece like VVD for one or two windows will not do much for the club in the long term. It is even highly unlikely that it will result in short term success like a Europe/Champions berth this season.Obtaining a maximum price for VVD will do much more for the club's future elevation. Looking to the issue of maximum price, we can see VVD's maximum price will most likely be achieved during this window given the inflated transfer market, individual team needs, and a distinct likelihood of VVD's future value being lower given several circumstances including injury history, age, and a potential lack of showcase opportunities. I hope the club is engaging in posturing with the hopes of extracting the maximum price for VVD this window, but regardless, they have already made a fundamental mistake taking a hard "refusing to sell" stance. First, if VVD does ultimately sell during this window, the board publicly loses credibility (again). The board also shows that players ultimately have the upperhand, and that sulking tactics are effective. Second, the public difficulty associated with this transfer will discourage future players of VVD's caliber from coming to the Saints as part of a "stepping up" platform. Like it or not, the Saints are currently a means to an end, and not a final destination. In the absence of willing spending by the board on caliber players, we require several more VVD/Mane types, and the funds received from those players, to assemble a top flight team. Things that discourage quality, undervalued black-box selections from coming to the team are mistakes, pure and simple. Finally, it's unlikely that they are even able to extract maximum price as certain clubs may believe that VVD is actually not for sale and be less inclined to spend recruiting resources on him (particularly foreign clubs). Fewer bidders equals less opportunity for a bidding war and a lower maximum price. In short, the board has thoroughly rodgered themselves on this one. Time to extract the most value for VVD as possible and live for another day.

"Not often that Southampton win anything"

It's not like any of the players or coaches who have been let go have been generational talents. Meanwhile the team has enjoyed the most successful run in history. If that's what falling apart is, I'll take it.

Puel got a year of insurance with the 8th place finish and a cup final. I would sooner put money on him going next year before this one.

Could not imagine a more perfect game to ruin Christmas for the resident grinches. How giddy they must have been when they saw the team sheet and the early goal! And then superb performances from the most maligned. I suppose, in the spirit of a true Christmas Miracle, Long could have gotten in the fourth... Enjoy the holidays, grinches!

If you build it they will come!

Need players with finishing skill. Stick Mane + Pele in that game and it's 5-0. Hope one comes in the next window but not holding my breath. On the plus side, Boufal looks like another excellent black box acquisition.

Must admit, beautiful goal. F*ck.

Love to see so much attack from the Saints. Now get it in!!!

Simple maths says the answer to this is yes. A point in a group advancement scenario will always be worth less than one in a head to head. Puel knows this and managed accordingly.

Imagine the depths of despair one has to reach in order to feel compelled to seek validation like this. My heart aches for you, Saint Nacho.

Ref awards pen, Tadic and Austin do some jostling at the spot vying to be the one to take it. VVD marches Tadic off. I once heard Roja Directa has great streams for this sort of thing.

Starting to believe those rumours about Tadic...

I think this is the point that gets blatantly overlooked on this forum. A positive result for any PL team comes from: (1) Winning the league (2) Qualifying for Champions/Europa (3) Winning a trophy (4) Staying up Realistically, after the departures, the Saints had relatively decent odds to achieve (4) and fairly poor odds to achieve (1), (2) and (3). The question for management therefore becomes what is the best return on investment? Namely, will investing X sum substantially increase the odds of achieving (1), (2), or (3)? Or is it dead money? I would much rather see the board save and build up a war chest to make a really good crack at things in a few years when the cumulative funds will have an effect, rather than piddle away the available money on players that won't significantly change outcomes, especially with a new and as of yet unproven manager at the helm. At the end of the day whether the team finishes 1 spot above relegation or 1 spot below Europa is meaningless, but the level of cash saved is very important.

Whenever Jose is being talked about off the pitch, he struggles on it. This has happened every time there is agent/transfer drama. The window will close and he'll get back to form.

VVD to United rumours incoming

It's 9. Still amazing!

Given that Cedric speaks English, I don't think we really have to worry about this one.

1. I think Jose expects to play for more than one year, should he move clubs. 2. I think Jose expects Man U has a better chance at making the CL before his career ends than the Saints do. 3. I think Jose has tremendous self belief and will view a move as an opportunity to work his way into the lineup as he just did with the national team. I cannot fault any of those lines of reasoning, although I do not fully agree.