The9

I'm not overrating it, we'd had to blood players in the Prem before that and did ok. But what makes me wary is that there's a notable difference in the standard of player you'l be expecting from kids "only" surrounded by successful League One players and who were recruited or developed by a bankrupt club in admin or in League One, as compared to kids who have been surrounded by successful top half Prem players and when they break into the team are in a lower league than they may have been expecting (eg Dyer, Mills, Walcott etc). As for the West Ham game, I can't forget it because I didn't see it, I was in Leeds representing Saints fans at Worldnet at the time. Of course Oxlade-Chamberlain proves that true talent will make it through no matter what the surroundings...

Yeah, but it didn't cost ninety quid.

Good stats but taking away your "playoff or promoted" category and matching like for like (as there are 3 promotion and 3 relegation places, as opposed to 6 promotion or playoff places and 3 relegation places) it does also show that only 2 teams went straight up again of those 36 League One promotees, and that's still far fewer than the 5 relegated. And even using your "7 made the playoffs" and "5 went down" stat, if you bear in mind the proportion of teams in the Playoffs or better [there are twice as many playoff/promotion spots as relegation], that's actually showing a newly promoted team is more likely to go down (5 down from 3 available places) than make the playoffs (7 playoff/promoted from 6 available places). You also have indicated where teams went up within a couple of years but not where they went down within a couple. Examples of teams coming up, surviving the first year and then dropping back down being Gillingham, Rotherham, Crewe, Brighton, Luton and Colchester. Mind you, none of this is particularly relevant to Saints in particular. Whilst it does show that teams are more likely to drop back down in the next 5 years than go up, based on the recent past, this is highly dependent on a large number of factors specific to the particular clubs. Ground size seems the most obvious criteria from that list of relegated sides, and we're fine on that front.

Not all of the ones who recently played at St Marys were playing regularly for top level clubs though. It was slightly over half of those who played, actually. And many of them were by no means first choice :Welbeck and Cleverley only played 25-ish matches, Tomkins played 19, Smalling played about 1/4 of Man U's games last season. Gibbs has only ever played 25 times for Arsenal in 4 seasons, and only made 7 appearances last season. England Under-21 (4-4-2): Fielding; Mancienne, Smalling, Jones (Tomkins 83), Bertrand (Gibbs ht); Rose (Albrighton ht), Muamba (Cork ht), Rodwell, Henderson (Lansbury ht); Sturridge (Delfouneso 65), Welbeck (Cleverley ht). Subs: Steele (gk), Wickham.

I think it's a fair point that it's much more of a risk to plug young players into the side at a level where their errors are going to get exploited more, but on the flipside, we also have a much better idea of the league we'll probably be sending them to than we would have had the last time we were a Championship side - and a higher level than League Two to send them to. If nothing else it guarantees no-one's going to go in as naively as Lowe did with his kid-based approach (that lets not forget didn't just fail in the Championship, but also the first couple of months in League One after he'd left). Not that it should have taken what happened to Saints to have realised that was a bad idea !

Calling it an "XI" just gives them the opportunity to rotate if they wish. It doesn't mean they will or they won't. Just like I didn't say they would, just that they could.

Oh come on, seriously ? Pardew was able to pick and choose from pretty much anyone available in the Championship and lots of League One players who weren't available until we splashed the cash for them. He picked well because he got in a load of players playing above the level they were going to be asked to for Saints. Adkins hasn't needed to do that as he already had an excellent squad at League One level and didn't need anything other than to ensure we had cover in positions where we had injuries, suspensions, or possible jail sentences, so most of his signings have been to get us out of League One in the short term, not to get us out of the Championship. Forte is about the only longer-term signing Adkins is solely responsible for, and he's already got Championship experience, if hasn't set the world alight so far - but he did a hell of a job against MK and showed potential. We'll see in the next 6-8 weeks whether Adkins is able to attract players to improve us and given Pardew-type funds to attract players. So far it seems we're going so far then folding and walking away if people are after too much, which isn't the manager's role anyway. I'd say Sharp and Cork were decent targets and they were confirmed by the manager himself.

Pretty much every pre-season side could be any kind of combination of first teamers and reserves, that's sort of the point.

Yeah they were. They were pretty sh1te for the 2 months before they played us as well, barely scraping past most of the bottom half by a single goal to compile that daft 12-match winning streak. They did most of the hard work prior to February and the rot had set in long before they actually lost a match. Lucky for them they'd played the top teams when they were in form and could scrape through the other matches using their time-wasting spoiler tactics if they got in front.

I'd really like to see Doble get a couple of matches as well, just to know if he's as good as I thought he was... but I suspect we're getting to the breakpoint with him now unless we loan him to a League One side for 6 months.

This should be right up your street in here... a website dedicated to capturing the ridiculous and ridiculously good in football. http://ridiculousfootball.blogspot.com/ Also on Facebook And Twitter I have heard a rumour that there's a Ted Bates Statue article coming along if another 40 Facebook likes can be added. And by rumour I mean "I can guarantee it". FWIW the goalkeeper in the foggy background is banned Saints Forum member Cabbage Face...

I'd rather we had a side of successful unknowns than famous failures.

And even then it's only relevant if the current squad doesn't cakewalk the division !

I was amused, what they've actually done is only taken group pictures - the guy (presumably Matt Crocker) is at the side of the photo for all of them, so he looks really distorted when they blow it up to crop and use as a photo of just him.

There is a thread specifically proving you are talking from the wrong end, which was started yesterday here : http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?31067-Championship-(or-above)-Experience-in-the-Squad. Glad it was of some use. Incidentally I think Nugent is Rasiak-level crap. And yes, I know what that meant in 2007 for Saints.

Nice Paraguay adidas kit.

The answer to that one is "marketing". Nice to know the club actually has them already though. Now if we can just find someone who isn't a club employee and hasn't signed an NDA... Also, I wonder if the only pressing machine they have for numbers is the one in the Megastore at the ground, or if the kitman has his own behind the scenes - was this during opening hours ? You didn't happen to ask what colour the numbers were did you ? My money's on black, of course...

I'd say we have at least a comfortable mid-table side without making any signings - though the 1st of July was never a breakpoint for signings (and nor is the 5th), and if we have new signings by the start of the season then great. You're absolutely right to question the evidence of ambition if we don't have any, as I can't see us challenging the top 2 without any, and I think we're going to be at best Play-Off contenders without any newcomers. But there's a long way to go yet - and I'd rather we signed good players who have options to go elsewhere than just players who are at the current standard. Adkins has already said he's expecting most business at the end of July / August - and the Prem loans which would also bolster the side won't be until September. I wouldn't worry about the close season looking like last year either, we did get promoted !

I will eat Pat from Poole's garage if we don't finish above Brighton next season even if we don't sign anyone. They did a lot of the hard work by January and after February last season they scraped past a load of bottom half League teams by a single goal and lost to both their nearest rivals, they no longer have a multi-ball system to abuse and will have to restructure the side to accommodate the essential Murray and Bennett leaving, as well as having a new ground teams will love playing at. Plus Brighton haven't finished above 20th in the Championship for 20 years, so they're going to have to reach new heights to do that. Meanwhile we've got the same team that raised their game to beat Ipswich, Blackpool and knock the ball around for 10 mins whilst leading against Man U, with our side clearly capable of playing better in big matches.

Apparently I'm getting mine on Tuesday. I have been instructed.

If nothing else I love Ryan Dickson's Twitter pic :

Fairly reasonable prices I think, aybe even "good value" ? It's still midweek in the middle of summer though which means plenty of people will be away or decide to do other things, and I don't get paid until a couple of days later, so might not bother anyway. I don't think anyone can argue with £10 to see a Prem club that near to the start of the season, even in a friendly.

Well Essruu's on there.

This thread had better have a bloody good picture of Lowe's olive green jacket, pink shirt and beige trousers combo from Farnborough pre-season a few years back or I'll be furious.

I hate all superfluous tautologies.