verlaine1979

I still think Edouard looks like a much better player for the same money.

JWP hasn't always been a leaden-footed defensive midfielder - earlier in his career he swapped in and out with Steven Davis in a position not dissimilar to how Mount plays now (for Chelsea at least - I seem to recall Southgate trying to play him as a winger during the Euros). Aside from his lack of desire (or belief) getting forward, I struggle to understand why JWP couldn't play further forward with Romeu and Diallo behind him - he can certainly strike a ball as well as the likes of Mount or Connor Gallagher.

4-3-3 probably suits our personnel best. JWP, Romeu, Diallo as a base, Tella, Broja, Redmond as the front three. Tella and Redmond wide rather than narrow, JWP learns to show up on the edge of the box.

His stubbornness (or myopia) is definitely now a serious problem. Livramento hasn't offered anything going forward and has been a liability in defense for several games now, but he hasn't even been substituted let alone dropped. Even more absurd is the fact that we'd probably be better balanced right now with KWP on the right and Perraud on the left. KWP has shown no lack of ability to get forward on the left, he just hasn't been able to do anything with it when he gets there as he needs to cut inside every single time. I'd argue that he's far more of an attacking threat at the moment than TL, but Ralph has completely blunted him by refusing to rest an 18 year old who clearly needs it.

We were already 2-0 down and effectively out of the game when he came off. And aside from one snap shot that was easily saved, we'd failed to convert any of our pressure into meaningful chances. Teams at the bottom have to lean into their strengths when they want to turn a game around. That could mean playing rough like Burnley or Stoke of old, or it could mean bombing forward with pace like Palace currently do. Our problem is that, as a squad we are neither strong nor fast. We excel only in mediocrity, hence why we have seen so few fight backs over the past few seasons. JWP sums this up for me - a one-paced plodder incapable of playing on the turn, incapable of imposing himself on the game physically and too timid to impose himself on the game through technique. Once the game starts to get away from us, we have nowhere to go.

Nah, one is an optimist, the other a pedant.

Claudinho at Zenit just put in a very good showing at #10 against Chelsea. Doesn't seem to have too high a price tag either.

I don't see us playing an unusually energetic press compared to many other teams in the league. What I see is us trying to play a press without particularly energetic players. In central midfield in particular, both Romeu and JWP aren't quick to begin with, so the drop off as they tire is more noticeable. Neither are the likes of Elyounoussi, Stuart Armstrong or Redmond among the quickest/most physical in the league. We've got good pressing strikers, but the rest of the team isn't really built for it, and it shows.

Sadly we're terrible, slow, indecisive crap on the break. Making chances by forcing errors is our highest probability route to goal, as we've got no creativity to build and hardly any pace in transition to play on the break.

One other question - xG only counts shots/headers/other attempts on goal, right? I.e. if you're put through on an undefended goal but you fail to control the pass, that wouldn't count towards xG as there'd be no actual attempt on goal.

I just meant that yesterday, when we were started this discussion about xg underperformance for the season, Jimenez had scored 3 league goals and Che had scored 2. One (hugely misleading) way of stating that would have been to say that RJ had scored 50% more goals than CA. I'm not against using data in football, but since the game is so chaotic and unrepeatable, I suspect that it's only useful in player assessment on a timescale measured in seasons rather than games. Which means that on some level, you also have to use qualitative judgement to make up for the deficiencies in data - which I guess is why, having seen both of them play, most people here are pretty confident in their judgement that Jimenez is a vastly more gifted player than Adams.

And yet at the time, Jimenez had scored 50% more goals than Che. You see where I'm going with this?

To clarify, before tonight's games, the xg stats said that Jimenez should've scored 0.39 more goals and Che should've scored 0.17 more goals? Considering the actual goals scored at the time were only 3 and 2 respectively, is that fractional underperformance meaningful?

My point is that Jimenez can ping in a worldie from twenty yard too, but neither of ours have the combination of strength, close control and composure that got him the winner against us. Out of interest, can you think of any unassailably great strikers from the past few years who play as part of a traditional central pair?

I look forward to the day either Che or Armstrong turns a center back pair inside out the way he did scoring the winner against us. Jimenez has the technique to play as a lone striker, while Che and Armstrong look utterly lost without a partner to share responsibility and the ball. It's not even close.

Oh, come on. I know you're loyal, but this is absurd.

Napoli too - Serie A has moved on from the days of Football Italia on Channel 4. Pogba is one of the world's best passers, but for some reason (upon which I won't speculate) a lot of English fans mistake him for Patrick Viera mk.2.

Did any of our forwards look good second half yesterday? Broja was quiet, but the freekick he won at the death is a good example of what he brings - turned his marker with strength and then blitzed him for pace.

Our inability to do anything other than put in hopeful crosses during the first half cost us today. Absolutely no craft in the attacking third.

Get Broja on. So many crossing opportunities but Armstrong is about 4ft tall and Adams has never scored a headed goal for us.

A glimpse of Adams' legendary dribbling ability at the end there.

This is more or less my point. At this stage in Broja's career with us, we only have first impressions and instincts to go on. And on the basis of two very well taken goals, some dangerous involvement at corners and a couple of blitzing runs, I judge him as having made a much more promising start than many I've seen at Saints over the years.

I don't like dumping on stats because with the correct context set around them, they can be illuminating. However, your confidence in Che's dribbling vs Broja, for example, is based on Broja having attempted 7 and completed 2 and Che attempting 8 and completing 3. This is hardly a significant sample. For example, the two instances you mention against Villa were impressive, but to me they stood out for the simple fact that I'd literally never seen Che carry the ball that far before. Aerial duels have a bit more data, but again, without context it's hard to compare. Broja played both starts as a lone striker, whereas Che spends a lot more time in the middle of the park. How many of Che's headers were won against midfielders rather than CBs? I have no idea - and the stats certainly don't shed any light on the question. So far I've watched Broja threaten from corners, finish confidently, and show frightening pace and strength running with the ball at his feet. That's where my hunch that he's going to prove a much better player than Che comes from. In time the stats might prove me wrong, but for now they don't have a great deal to say on the matter.

Broja has started a grand total of two games for us and scored in both. He's bigger, faster, better in the air, better first touch and a better finisher. Given enough games I'd be willing to bet he's at least as creative, just because what are the chances he's got all that in his locker but is less able to create than a player with far fewer technical gifts? As for dribbling, next time Che streaks half the length of the pitch leaving defenders puffing behind him, do call and let me know.

Get a lot of chances or miss a lot of chances? Armstrong's two-footedness is a good sign that his technique might ultimately be up to the job, but I still wouldn't trust Che in a one on one. It was a nice finish for Scotland, mind.