Shroppie

Sorry to butt in on the ever-enduring Cup v League debate, but we really have to look at the next two games together. I don't think all our players are capable of two games in four days at the moment. Plus Minamino is Cup-tied. I'm guessing Armstrong (if fit), Djenepo and Ings at least won't play two full games. Forster will play in the Cup, and unless something remarkable happens, McCarthy will be back in the league. At CB there's an argument for sticking with Vestergaard plus Bednarek for both games to let them rebuild the partnership, but I can't imagine that we won't use at least Stephens and maybe even the lesser-spotted Salisu in one game. That's guesswork since Bednarek looks tired and I'm hoping Vestergaard hasn't had a reaction. Bertrand, Romeu and JWP have to play twice. No options. Probably the case too with Adams and Ings for at least a start. I'd like to see Tella get some time. At RB I'm praying KWP will be back, but think he'll be saved for the league. We can't afford to let JWP play there as no-one fit to cover DM. St Maximan destroyed Stephens and Bednarek and Traore will do the same. Think it'll have to be Stephens anyway and tell JWP to double up on him. Then I'd play Djenepo and Redmond in the Cup, Minamino and Armstrong in the league. Just hope we get no injuries/suspensions and no ET. Sixth Round and 3 points incoming. Sorted.

The style does still work, but you're right that teams are getting better at countering it. Which is why Ralph is on record as saying you can never stand still: you have to keep trying to do things better. He's also said that it's not only he who thinks about this: there is a strong team spirit and the players themselves discuss tactics a lot after training sessions. Ralph is an intelligent, knowledgeable coach who cares passionately about Saints. There's no other manager I'd rather have right now.

Have you forgotten that, with the players we've got, playing Ralph's style, we we're top of the league in November?

Good post. I agree with your analysis of our tactics. It's not just slow sideways and backwards passing: it's retaining possession and trying to draw the opposite out of position. But you're right. When the opposition sit tight, we need guile, movement off the ball or someone to run at players to get through. We missed Armstrong yesterday because he provides a bit of vision for the defence-splitting pass, is not afraid to run directly and has a decent shot. Ings was making moves but looked tired and sluggish. He didn't move to keep himself onside before Che's disallowed effort. BTW, I thought Che was most like to get the goal. I also thought Minimino had a good debut, but he hasn't had long to learn how players around him work. I also wasn't unhappy with JWP and Romeu who I thought worked to play balls forward, but weren't given many options. As many have commented, Redmond was most disappointing: no adventure, and little positive passing, except the assist for Danny hitting the post. Surprised we didn't see Djenepo.

I agree, and would add that Bednarek's OG was unlucky. He had his feet in place to block but the ball somehow popped up and squeezed past the unsighted McCarthy at the near post. I'd say that McCarthy had it covered anyway. It almost looked as if he called and Bednarek was trying to get out of the way. Nothing unlucky about the other two goals, though. As I posted earlier, our lack of late penetration wasn't the main reason we lost. If we had defended properly we wouldn't have let in three goals and wouldn't have been chasing the game with an exhausted team on a quagmire in driving freezing sleet. The success of our attacking game relies on risk-taking and the confidence that if we lose the ball, we'll get it back and defend if we have to. Conditions didn't help, but we didn't do that, and that's why Ralph looked so unhappy.

MU Everton a good game now

I think he had a very fair crack of the whip. And Walcott has made good contributions.

Redmond has lost his mojo. Hopefully it'll come back, but at the moment he's not taking anyone on or getting crosses in, which makes him fairly useless. But, as I recall, Elyounoussi was consistently useless.

Possibly, but not sure it was a clear goal chance

As an aside, it was a pleasure to have a ref who was virtually invisible. And very good.

I don't know where to start, really. I suppose with why we lost. That was because we let in three goals in the first half, )and that puts the blame squarely on the defence): the first because we didn't have a proper right back. Bednarek dived in for an interception he didn't make and gave St Maximan a free run instead of shepherding him outside. Doesn't happen with KWP. The second was some of the same, plus Bednarek not getting his feet sorted out. A bit unlucky. And the third was a McCarthy clusterfuck. Poor pass out underhit on a sodden surface when it needed hitting. Especially one minute from HT. Then Bertrand was slow to react and recover the situation. He had just been crocked, but poor. Then McCarthy gets his position totally wrong fir the shot, leaving near post wide open with JWP covering across the goal. So, although I'm disappointed (euphamism) that we didn't get anything at the end, we did score two good goals away from home and shouldn't have needed more to get even a draw. There were factors that worked against us. I'm not calling them excuses because you have to deal with what you get, but these made a difference. Most of the team were either weary after a gruelling and exhausting experience on Tues, or were returning and not quite on the pace. They will have been nervous of another disaster. Both Tues, and more so today, the conditions were draining, worked against playing decent football, and must have been exhausting. Yes, it's the same for both teams, but the pitch was so bad in the last 30 minsit was hard to play sharp passes. But we did make sone chances and Danny was unlucky hitting the post. Just not happening for him. But some things I thought were poor, strange or just wrong. Ralph may be trying to play Redmond back into form, but he contributed little, even wasting half out previous stoppage time with a stupid foul. Didn't take on his man. Didn't shoot. Lost momentum again and again. And with Djenepo on the bench, why didn't we see him? Surely a better option than N'Lundulu especially when Vestergaard had been thrown into attack. And why, given the attack we had at the end, didn't we throw more crosses in? In those conditions the hard-hit low cross can skim anywhere. But at least it was a "normal" scoreline. Trying to look for positives, I'd suggest: In less atrocious conditions, we'll play well again. When we get KWP back, it'll make a huge difference. Ings needs a bit of luck: his general play contributed a lot. I thought Adams, Romeu, Minamino, JWP had good games. But trying to play a high-tempo game on that surface was near impossible, particularly with tired players. This incessant two games a week, especially with injuries and a small squad with no chance to rotate, is killing us (and really favouring the big clubs. With the injuries today, Newcastle will now struggle.) When Europe restarts, the boot will be on the other foot, we'll get decent recovery periods and hopeful turn results around. I've got no great expectations for this season now, just mid-table. Ralph has a very delicate and difficult job to do retaining the integrity of our playing style, rebuilding confidence but kicking a few arses where required to sharpen things up. We just can't afford sloppy defence. Our game is built on risk-taking, pressing, high-intensity and quick forward passing. For that to work, we have to be confident that the defence will recover if we lose the ball. The danger is, if we get nervous about defending, we'll lose the willingness to take risks in attack.

I'd take it for the team

One final thought on the game. I wonder what difference it would have made it there had been a full crowd there? I’m sure the Saints following would have helped us. Can you imagine the grief Dean would have been given, especially after the Bednarek red? Playing out the last 15 minutes in a silent stadium must have felt utterly empty and meaningless. Even taunting MU fans would possibly have pushed us to fight for pride. Not really important, just a random thought.

I think we need Romeu and KWP and will see them. Vest maybe on the bench.

I feel all of that too, although, despite it sometimes being the stressful part of the day, or the 90 mins that mars the day, I miss being part of St Mary's. But being in a small, passionate away section is different again. You call 8:30 from Kings Cross early? 😉 It's the 6:27 for me, home at midnight - and that's home games! Looking at it now, it seems mad and I wonder if I'll want to get back to it, but I will.

Craig Pawson. Think he last reffed us away at Bournemouth last season. We won 2-0. Just seen he did Arsenal Wolves on Tues and sent Luiz off in similar incident to Bednarek.

"Its different than last time (to Leicester). Because we were definitely a shit team. Sorry I say this. We had no identity and were wobbling around then"

This. His said in the presser he's been lifted by a mass of messages of support from fans.

I didn't expect it either. Bet Dean is seething. It proves we have a valid complaint.

Should happen, but I doubt it will. Bet Dean is seething. This rather supports our complaints.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are elements of truth in it, but the quote is fabricated and I believe could be the basis of legal action.

Suddenly looking a lot better. 😀

Can we have the last three goals back too, please? Or replay?

On the OS. It's official. Now Dean and the VAR team have to be investigated. They had the same evidence but appeared to refuse to consider it properly. Smacks of collusion at best, possibly worse.

Romeu is close enough for Romeo. Just need a Juliet.