miserableoldgit

I suppose it depends on your interpretation of "celebrate". Is showing love of ones country and culture celebrating? I am English. I love what this country stands for.I am proud of (most) of our history. I love the English psyche so if saying all this is celebrating my country then I am celebrating as much as a Saints fan celebrates his team by wearing a red and white striped shirt.

11 Lola - The Kinks

For me it is not about "shouting it from the rooftops". It is about the gradual pressure to erase the national identity of the English. For years now, on any form, for example, when asked for your nationality you have no choice but to choose the GB or UK option rather than English. The Cross of St George IS NOT the fascist symbol that many would have you believe. It is the flag of our country which mustn`t be seen as "offensive" to anyone living here. Guy Fawkes Night is to celebrate the uncovering of the Gunpowder Plot in 1605. It is not to celebrate stories from Indian folklore or anything else. TV always shows Chinese New Year celebrations but not any English Mayday celebrations. People have been trying for years to get "Land of Hope and Glory" etc removed from "The Last Night of the Proms" because these works are seen as too jingoistic and might offend somebody. The list of seemingly small issues is endless. As I have said before on this thread, I am not a "Little Englander" and I am quite proud that this country shows great tolerance and encouragement toward other cultures, but I want to be able to "celebrate" mine without being made to feel like I am doing something wrong. This is not "racism" or if it is, it is an inverted sort.

Possibly, but I am finding it difficult to understand exactly what Wilde is supposed to have done that is wrong."Chairman of Company Spots Potential Useful Employee" shock. The Bastard!!

Whilst I am not a fan of Wilde or Lowe, I think that this is a bit unfair. If you or I, or anyone else on this forum spoke to the club and said "Hey, there`s a young lad who plays for our local team and he looks very useful and could hsve potential" and the club had a look and gave him a trial, would you be then considered Chief Scout?? Let`s not let our dislike of W and L get in the way of a good dig though!

What's hiding in Sholing? What do you think the hazy object is hiding in a backyard in Sholing? http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=50%C2%B053\'47.59%22N+1%C2%B020\'46.19%22W+&ie=UTF8&ll=50.896553,-1.346164&spn=0.000363,0.000842&t=k&z=21 Still not sure then go to the post about 1/3rd way down the page on this forum and look at the images. http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=19089&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

I posted this on the TMS PC thread:- Another can of worms perhaps?? Australia Muslims who want to live under Islamic Shariat law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Shariat law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Shariat law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should clear off. "Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians." "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia " "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle." "This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom" "We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!" "Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us." "If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others. "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'." "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

Another can of worms perhaps?? Australia Muslims who want to live under Islamic Shariat law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Shariat law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Shariat law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should clear off. "Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians." "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia " "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle." "This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom" "We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!" "Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture." "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us." "If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others. "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'." "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

Oh dear.

If anyone wants to actually look for it, there is an incredible amount of music, song, dance and tradition that is English (not British), Sunday Roasts, pints of real ale, walking in some of the most beautiful countryside in the world, Christmas (not Winterval), Guy Fawkes Night, there are so many things that are particularly and peculiarly English. Why do so many English people celebrate St Patricks Day and not St Georges Day. St Georges Day IS NOT a Fascist celebration!

I think that the point that most people forget is that Britain is probably the most tolerant country in the world. What other country allows people of any creed, colour or religion in, allowing and supporting them to set up their own places of worship and accepting them into our society completely. Of course there is some racism here, but not as much as some people would have us believe, and not as much as in many other countries. I have no problem with this at all - in fact I am quite pround of this. However, I do feel that what we are fostering here is a form of inverted racism where it is perceived that "native" Britons are becoming an "ethnic minority" - that they cannot do what they have always done (flying the flag of St George on April 23rd for example) for fear of offending the people that we are welcoming into "our home". It is easy to dismiss this as these people being "Dail Mail Reading Little Englanders" but the problem is there. In such circumstances are Nazi Parties spawned.

I think probably because it is something that is yours. Something that is part of your identity. A lot of people do not care about ther own cultural heritage but to a lot of others (including me) it is a part of what makes me who I am so I am going to guard it. It saddens me that culturally, the English have lost sight of English culture and traditions when the Irish, Scots and Welsh for example celebrate their own. Sadly too many American influences are prevelant in England and it is not just part of the natural melting pot process. It down to aggresive marketing.

Whilst I realise it is only "Paper Talk" but yesterday one paper stated that an American Consortium were close to buying Newcastle for £200M+, and another one said that there were a number of Middle Eastern consortia trying to buy their way into the PL. How does this fit in with the current financial turmoil??:-?

I think that it is very important that people are able to hold on to their cultural heritage. It is the very diversity of cultures that make this world interesting. I realise that this can also be a negative (tribalism, religious/racial intolerence etc) but don`t think that having a "Lowest Common Denominator" world cultural heritage would make for a better world. Celebrate what makes/made you what you are and respect what makes everyone else what they are.

Good sensible post. Mind you, you do realise that you will now be branded "A Daily Mail Reader"!

Is this genuine????

I rest my case.

But surely, if we are honest, we all use some of these phrases, whether we admit it or not.

Totally agree.

Sadly, the biggest problem with the Americans is that they don`t learn from history. Because they are the biggest, most powerful country on earth, this is their answer to everything. I just know, however, that if this country has to align itself to anyone, it has to be the U.S. I am not happy about it but what are the choices?

I am no lover of America, but where would we have been in 1918 or 1945 without them? Nothing is black or white. Where would we have been during the Cold War without the backing of the Americans? Would Russian influence have spread further into Europe? Unfortunately, America is a neccessary evil.

I quite agree. This thread is not about the rights or wrongs of war (although I defy anyone to say that the war against Hitler was not justified). It is about those who went and did what they were asked to do and sacrificed their freedom and their lives doing it, whether on the beaches of Normandy, at Ypres , Waterloo, Iraq or Afghanistan. Without them we may have been speaking French or German now!

You are right but sadly today too many young people don`t seem to accept this and think that old people are "fair game" forgetting (or not really knowing) what they forfeited to give them their freedom. My old man (now well into his 80`s) gave up HIS youth and served in the RN during WW2, taking part in the Battle of the Atlantic, the Russian Convoys and D-Day. He (along with thousands of others) deserves respect.

Saw him at The Anvil last night. Absolutely brilliant! Having seen a lot of comedy recently (Frankie Boyle, Russell Howard, Jo Caulfield, Andy Parsons, Lucy Porter, Milton Jones etc) I thought he was the funniest and he managed it with resorting to (too much) bad language or bad taste. Well worth catching up with.

Here You Are! Don`t Lose It Again!