um pahars

I would counter that it was Jan's fault as Gillett is just not up to it. IMHO he's a very poor player and we were even more overpowered when he came on. Wotton would have been a better bet, or maybe even shuffling who was already out there. IMHO I don't think Paterson made a difference one way or the other. As I have said elsewhere, I think it was the fact that the one up top was isolated too much and we continued to surrender possession.

We'll have to agree to disagree, as I think playing two up top is a more effective set up (then again any set up could be more prouctive than the current one). IMHO whenever the front two have played closer together we have looked more dangerous. We have no one in the current set up who can lead the line on their own, so I see it as a total waste to continue with a set up when we don't have the players to make it work. We're just consigning ourselves to bumble along as the 22nd worst scorers in the division.

So do we come back to the fact that in the current set up we don't have the quality of players who can score the chances created by this style of football (that said I'm not overly sure we do create a hatfull of gilt edged chances each game)??? If it's a yes, then would it be worth trying a different style of play, or do we just carry on regardless???

No, it's not delivering the goals. We are ranked 22nd in terms of scoring in this division. I would call that not delivering. Exactly, so if it does suit our players and they're used to it, then why aren't we scoring? Now you've lost me. It suits our players, they're used to it and all it's doing is not delivering victories, but now you're saying we haven't got a decent striker to play in this system that suits them (suits all those apart from the decent striker we haven't got???). So if we haven't got the personnel to play in this system, then why do we persevere with it???

You can call it what you want, but it is not delivering the goods with regards scoring goals. We're ranked 22nd in terms of scoring. I'm just asking for us to play to our strengths and perhaps try and change things if they're not working. And perhaps more importantly, maybe try and play a formation that suits our players, rather than try and shoe horn them into a system.

So you're saying we've been playing this attacking style of Dutch Total Football in the Academy for years then???

Aha, I did put a general in there. However, in line with the title of this thread, I was thinking more of the way we attack going forward with the insistence of playing one up to, as opposed to shuffling the defence around (as important as that is).

One of my main concerns with this manager. Firstly he only appears to know one way of playing and proves incapable of changing formation to match or outwit opponents. Generally, if Plan A doesn't work, then that's that. Secondly, I think rather than look at his resources and work out how he can get the best from them, he has a set way of how he wants to play and is then shoe horning players in to a system that some of them are not cut out for.

It's not been good post Strachan but my list would be: Pearson (short stint, so hard to say for sure, but felt he had just what we needed at that moment in time). Sturrock (despite a player mutiny, he got some good results) Burley (a strange one, one season was pretty good, but you good argue it should have been, then other parts of his tenure were very poor). Redknapp (he's obviously not a bad manager, as long as he is given what he wants, but not the right man for us at that point in time) Jan Poortvliet (still able to turn to around, but seems very one dimensional with his tactics and fairly naive) Wigley (enough said)

Really????? What about the line that The Dell was "always worth a few points to us" and away teams hated going there!!!!! Having followed us for many years home and away, as a percentage of games, I have seen many more wins at home. I reckon this might be the only season where our away form is better than our home form.

****k me, you're spot on (sorry about that Saint Martini). I totally forgot about him coming back under Redknapp!!!!!!!!! I have only got memories of him as an apprentice on the top deck of the 2a bus from Lordshill in all his FILA gear offering everyone out LOL. I think LordswoodSaints has a few stories to add from those days (I'm sure he lodged with lordswood's mate)!!!!!

In this order for me: Ivan Golac (who should walk this by a country mile) Mick Mills (past his best, but he captained England in Espana 82 a few months before we signed him) Jeff kenna (wasn't really around long enough, but no doubt a quality player) Jason Dodd (A great stalwart) Peter Rodrigues (A legend, particularly at parties, although not loads of matches!!!!) Gerry Forrest (steady as they come, but 100 or so games again)

I think you'll find he didn't.

DMG is the same age as Shearer was when he signed for........... Blackburn!!!!

Spot on as in??????? Wednesday continued to dominate the game and Gillet almost cost us a goal and then watched Tungay run past him without tracking back. Paterson was a like for like that did nothing, in that it didn't alter our shape and didn't make Wednesday readapt, they just carried on as before. Gillett did make us change our shape, but for the worse. It was no coincidence that their best chances came after he came on.

But Lallana has been playing wide right in recent games!!! The reason whoever is up front is getting double teamed is because this "exciting and attacking" style of play under this "revolutionary coaching set up" insists on playing one up front, no matter what. We obviously have no Plan B with regards our style (particularly at home)and it's not producing the goods. The only thing we do is swap like for like with Robertson & Paterson.

We could always bring back Woodward to teach players how to kick through the ball. Now I was all up for SCW introducing some of his preparation, professional and mental techniques to the Club, but did find it rather starange to hear Lowe compare Johnny Wilkinson striking through the ball and how this technique could be passed on to our youngsters (Johnny kicks over the bar, but then again so does DMG!!!).

But didn't those stats released the other day show we have the highest number of shots in the division???? If so, then shooting isn't the problem, it's more to do with the accuracy and potency!!!!!

You needed 53 points to be safe last season!!!!! Although, currently it might look as though a lower figure might be needed this year.

Don't buy it due to this line, as I have heard nothing to confirm that deal have been done, in fact I have heard the contrary. Unless this should read "Poortvliet apparently was very angry from not being told that both Surman and Lallana were going to be sold in January", then I'm not sure there's anything in it.

----------------------Mel Rees--------------------- Marcus Hall---Graham Roberts---Steve Foster---John Sillett Dennis Wise ---Lawrie Sanchez---Paul Hughes----Steve Guppy ------------Bobby Robson----Ron Futcher------------

He's got 5 goals this season, one of which was probably Lallana's and another a penalty. As an almost ever present, that's not a particularly good return.

Were you at the game???? Sheff Wednesday ****5ed on us in the second half, after dominating the first half. It wasn't all down to Paterson (more about Gillett later), but we were much stronger in the first half before these substitutions were made. The opening part of the second half wasn't very clever, but the latter part was just as bad, if not worse. As for Gillett, I presume you missed it when he gave away possession and they should have scored. Lallana didn't, as he and others were giving Gillett a roasting. You may have also missed him not tracking back as Tungay pushes on and Gillett just watches him go and score.

Two problems with that response: 1. The support at matches this season has been very good. I have heard or seen minimal berating of players, as the vast majority of supporters are keen to support these youngsters. 2. Even if there was any moaning, then once again it would be a sympton of a bigger problem. You have to ask why are people moaning and address the root cause of it, rather than just blame the supporters. I'm sure a fortress type support can give a boost, but there have also been times we when have turned up in numbers and the team has undrperformed. We really do need to move away from blaming supporters for the situation we find ourselves in.

Time to trot out that tired old line. "You'll never be happy unless we win the league, blah, blah, blah!" The vast, vast, vast majority of Saints fans fully accept where we are in the footballing pyramid. Of course we all hope to be higher, and we all hope to win every game we play, but we're also honest enough to accept that you are where you are. Plese bin ths little ditty, it's actually rather insulting to the vast majoroity of supporters. Of course other Chairman make mistakes, but what is the relevance to us? It's just as pointless as saying other Chairman oversee success at their clubs, so what? I don't care what happens at other teams, I have no affinity with another Club and what happens at other clubs has no bearing on the success or failure here. Those in charge of our Club will be judged by results on the pitch and how that translates into success or failure. In which case you've been living in a cave if you think Hone, Dulieu, Crouch, Wilde and others have not been slated on here. Really, I think the abuse can be thrown around from both sides, but there are also many posters (on both sides) who can post and debate, often to a very high level (sadly you're not one of them). We always hope that there is a brighter future ahead of us, and we always hope that something is just around the corner, but at times we have to start being realistic and face the situation head on and not blindly hope things will get better (after all, that was one of the criticisms thrwon at Crouch, yes you see, Crouch was slated on here!). Once again you're confusing the symptons with the root cause of the problem. To blame supporters for the position we find ourselves in is somewhat insulting. Well you know what to do then. Once again you're attacking the symptoms, rather than addressing the root cause of the problem. In any business, if the product is failing, then it is extremely myopic and naive to blame the customer base.