um pahars

Yes. Why, are you going to say that you think it was more of a gamble:rolleyes:???

Of course employing every manager is somewhat of a gamble. But if you can't see how some are perhaps more of a gamble than others, and that ours fits in slightly past the median of those gambles, then you're more of a fool than I've already got you down for.

It appears you're the only one with a short memory regards Beattie. He certainly wasn't the most skilful of players, but he was one of the hardest working, particularly when it came to tracking back and defending from the front.

Our 35 goals against means we are ranked 21st in this division!!!!!! Even Doncaster and Forest beat us on that statistic. You must write for the OS LOL.

What games has he changed the formation??? He has swapped players on a like for like basis and kept the same shape(e.g. against Charlton), but he has rarely moved away from his Total Football strategy. In fact, he even said in an interview that he doesn't think his players are able to play another formation, which is a pretty damning indictment on the coach IMHO. What games were those? As for the last bit, the guy is an adult being paid to do a job at a fairly high profile club. Given his record to date (when judged against his play off ambitions) I think he should expect some questioning of his tactics. LMFAO. Do you write for the OS??? All you needed to add was "attacking and free flowing football", "the Dutch Total Football style" and the "Skill and Steel" tag line. If anything, his insistence on sticking with one strategy, that has failed to produce results, has shown him to be extremely inflexible. Then you didn't watch much football back then, because Beattie was one of our best defenders, and under WGS we defended from the front. There were numerous times when Beattie chased back, made tackles and won big challenges and headers in our own box. You're showing yourself up here a bit. I quite enjoyed the play off season, didn't you?????

Polls on here are only indicative given the relatively low numbers (I'm sure that in the old days, there were sometimes three times as many participants) and I wouldn't read too much into them. And as you say I'm sure the knee jerk reaction to another poor defeat would have had an impact, just as the rather wooly way in which the question was being posed probably had a slightly different effect (as corky morris pointed out) So, enough of poll analysis . I'm also not sure how Lowe directly benefitted from these initiatives (given his small shareholding), particularly as Lowe's main way of benefitting was via the millions he was paid for his executive role. Now of course if these initiatives kept his shareholding supporters happy, then he would have benefitted from their continued support, which in turn would have ensured he kept pulling in the wages year in, year out. Up to a point. I do believe you have to give people as much time as is humanly possible to try and create something, but alongside this desire to try and achieve something long term, there are also some short term goals which must be achieved. And it's not just escaping relegation either, as we also have to start winning at home to try and drive gates up in order to improve our finances. Jan's time is not yet up, but I also don't think you can blindly carry on supporting someone when it's not working out as Wigley's sacking showed. Forest is a big game, and a win could well shake the monkey off his back, but at the same time a defeat or surrendering a lead could well be the start of the calls for is head.

You're right, it had nothing to do with Wigley et al, we were just unlucky with some individuals missing some one on ones.

?????????? Considering your line above, then that might not be a bad idea:rolleyes::rolleyes: Not sure what's worse, your intentional posts or your unintentional ones LOL.

So the reason we're struggling this season is solely down to individual errors.:rolleyes: Methinks you're somewhat clutching at straws. LMFAO

A game we have to win, and a game I think we will win. A tough fought, gritty 1-0 victory. Forest will comeo to defend and we will get an own goal off of someones ar55e.

Methinks you're being slightly naive (or maybe somewhat disengenuous) if you're trying to compare individual mistakes with the deficiencies of operating a rather rigid and one dimensional system. It is akin to trying to get Wigley off the hook by blaming Crouch for chipping over against Palace in the last minute, or when the whole defence switched off from a quick Norwich throw in. Individual errors will always exist, but they will in way excuse a much deeper malaise.

We've been trying it since the start of the season, it's just that we haven't perfected it yet!!!!

Absolutely. I'm not averse to a bit of 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-1-3-1 or whatever, particularly if gets results. However, my problem is not that Jan's systems are not getting results, but more that he is sooooo one dimensional and unable to change and adapt in this league. I don't know whether it's his inexperience of this division, his naivety, a dogmatic streak or just that he has no confidence in the players, but what I am sure of is that his rigidness and tactical deficiencies are costing us.

And interestingly the last 8 performances have us third bottom in 22nd according to Football 365: Recent Form Pld W D L.F.A. GD GFA GAA PpG Pts Rank Last 8 Overall8...1.3.4.6.11.-5..0.75 1.37 0.75 6 22

How honest of him!!!!!!! Then again, he was joint MD of the Club last time around, pulling in over #300,000 a year at one point. That's not bad for someone who now say they're not up for the job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As runs go, that's pretty ordinary. Optimistic W 3 D 2 L 2 Points 11 Pessimistic W 2 D 2 L 3 Points 8 If we can't beat Forest and Donny then we will be struggling as games won't get much easier.

Not even Ajax achieve what some people think they do, and that is with all the resources, the reputation and position they have in the game. Here's something I read a while back on their site about youth players making the grade: The further you get, the harder it becomes to maintain your place and to reach the ultimate objective - to play in the Amsterdam Arena. Only one or two players make it to the first team each year. Ajax is partly dependant on players from its own youth academy. PS Comparing us with Ajax is as cringeable as comparing Jan with Wenger, Scolari et al

Have to agree with both of you. I think our Academy has been overhyped somewhat and in the past was often touted as the Holy Grail that would solve all our problems. It's no surprise that with Lowe back in charge, the line is being trotted out once again. There's no doubt that our Academy has been moderately successful and has provided us both with players to use in the team and also with players to sell, but so have many up and down the country. After all, where do all these players come from that ply their trade in the four divisions (even after allowing for foreign imports)??? But with regards producing a team of home grown talent, then I have to say that is a fairly naive pipedream. Firstly it's a numbers game and from each year group of scholars / trainees, it is ineviatble that many will not make the grade. Why will we be the only club who is able to turn this around? Secondly, playing in this division will mean it will be impossible to keep the better ones as (a) they will always aspire to play in the top flight, and (b) we will always be under pressure to sell to offset operating losses. I am 100% behind our Academy, both for footballing and financial reasons, but that doesn't mean I buy into the utopian idea that it will solve all of our problems (both on and off the pitch).

The changes Jan has made in games would appear mainly to be like for like e.g. Paterson on for Robertson, Cork into defence (for Pearce) and Wotton replacing him in midfield etc etc etc, as opposed to changing the shape of the team. For some maybe blinkered, maybe dogmatic, maybe naive reason he has almost universally stuck with his 4-3-3 total football approach, even though the return of less than a point a game is crying out for something different every now and then. In one interview he stated that he didn't think the players could adapt to a different style of play, but I think that is more of an acknowledgement of the deficiencies of him as a manager to be able to get them to try something different, than about the abilities of the players themselves. If 4-3-3 suits our players and we're achieving some good results, then fair play to him. But if we haven't got the personnel to fit this system and it is not producing results, then surely we have to try something else (particularly at home, where this system has produced the worst results in living memory!!!!). His inability to adapt to the CCC is becoming more apparent as each game passes. A good manager would adapt his teams style of play with reference to the players available, the opposition, current form, conditions etc etc etc. A poor manager just bumbles on regardless.

The BBC have got it as 90+5!!!!!!!!!!!! Was just about going to say, "Don't worry, it will just make Saturday even spicier", but will happily now change it to, "Hopefully that will knock the shyyt3 out of Charlton" My Derby supporting hours are now over.

or should I just hope for a draw???? With Derby 23rd in the current form table and Charlton 24th, should we be hoping for a draw which would drag Derby into the relegation battle, or do we just want Derby to thump them??? I think it's a Derby win isn't it???

A very interesting shout. I like the way Jan comes across and he seems a very honest fella, so would have no qualms about him being in charge of the youth/academy set up. (as long as that doesn't involve Hockaday or Henderson stepping up to take his place!!!).

Some valid points, but I do think you have been somewhat pessimistic when it suits your argument, yet optimistic on other occasions. I have to agree with the premise that things are certainly tight (then again I was saying as much about three years ago, but was abused as just spreading anti Lowe gossip LOL), but where I diifer form some of your points is the remedial action taking place under Lowe. Whilst I fully accept that our financial predicament may well constrain some of the footballing decisions, that is not the same as saying we have had no choices to make (i.e. we could have gone for a different manager, spent the Scheiderlin money differently, got in different loan players who might actually get a game etc etc etc).

In Lowe's defence I don't think he has said this anywhere. The only place I think it was mentioned was by Martin Tyler in an off the cuff soundbite halfway through his commentary and I wouldn't rely too heavily on that one. I would refer back to David Jones comment about cost reductions and asset sales still being required.

You were sort of OK until I got to points 5. and 6.!!!!!!