um pahars

Personally think he is a decent, hard working and honest fella. Apart from recent interviews where it does appear the pressure is getting to him, he has always come across very well (despite the obvious language issues). The problem is that he is out of his depth and it is becoming more obvious as each game passes. He would have been mad to turn down this opportunity, as we are a fairly big Club in what is a well known league. As with Wigley, the blame should be focussed towards those who promoted him above his ability.

Won't happen. As much as they don't particularly get on, they both know that they rely on each others support to stay in situ. This is purely a marriage of convenience, with the Club suffering as a resuult of this sham marriage.

It was rather tongue in cheek and just to wind good old Bern up a bit (humour is often lost on here at times)!!!!

I certainly think it would be: a) Someone who would get rid of Lowe, b) Someone who he thinks/hopes will improve our Club, and c) Not necessarily gives him a job. I don't think for one minute that Crouch wants Lowe still involved in this Club, in fact I reckon it probably runs seeing the Club do well a close second!!!! But I think his days in the hot seat are over, as I think he feels pretty worn out & demoralised by the whole experience

Go back and read exactly what I posted about my nephew!!!!!! (He's 6 and trains once a week with the some young lads from Saints - along with about 50 others LOL)

And despite what some of the blind optimists have been trying to tell you (including Chris Iwelumo FFS), that was what it has been like for most of the season. There has been the odd moment of inspiration and the odd glimpse of talent, skill and effort, but on the whole the table is a true reflection of how we have been this season, because we have been very, very poor.

I did think of that when I was posting (particularly the hiring and firing of Wigley), but just think that this time around he really has nailed his colours to the mast. There was a massive fanfare about this being the way forward and how revolutionary etc it was, so just think that this is not just about the appointment of a Manager (Head Coach), but is instead much bigger. I also think that maybe if this fails, then his support base might start to answer questions as this would be a second failure.

And I don't think that there is any way that Lowe will sack Jan because to do so would be an admission of failure on his part and IMHO as he is so intrinsically linked with this appointment, he would also have to fall on his sword. Therefore I think we are stuck with the status quo and we need to start praying that we either start to improve, or that the ar55r3 falls out of someone elses season.

Lowe knows his shares are now worth fecuk all, and I wouldn't be surprised if he saw the "Revolutionary Coaching Set Up" as his last throw of the dice. If it doesn't come off he hasn't lost anything as it's technically already been lost. IMHO, he'll stick with this until the end, for good or bad.

But the bigger picture is your starting point that Wilde kick started the demise of this Club. I think you'll find the train was already full steam ahead when he rocked up. I'm sure he, Hone and others threw more coal into the engine, but let's not pretend everything was rosey when they took over. The Club's demise was well under way before Wilde got his feet under the table, both on and off the pitch. The idea that Lowe left a strong and robust Club is rewriting history big time. Lowe's tenure ended in relegation and a financial mess and no amount of blame shifting will change that. We can of course argue as to how we got there, and I for one certainly blame the poor managerial appointments (particularly Wigley who was appointed without full board approval) but there can be no denying he left us in a pretty perilous state. In our first season down, the Club under Lowe showed no sign of getting out of this division and in his second stint although it looks as though we might get out of this division, I'm not sure dropping down was what people expected! Those who came in certainly did not solve the problem, be they Wilde, Hone, Dulieu or Crouch, and I fully accept they may have even exasperated our financial problems, but their financial mishaps, fccukc ups and ill adivsed decisions, as bad as they were, are not the fundamental reason we find ourselves in the mire. The few million they wasted pales into comparison with the tens of millions we lost when we dropped out of the top flight under Lowe. PS I think you have made a strong case against Wilde being involved in the future of this Club, and I'm sure even you would have to accept that Lowe is not the right man to be involved in the day to day decision making, which does beg the question as to why these two are now in charge??????

So Wilde is all to blame for things happening under his tenure, yet Lowe isn't. Which way do you want it??? Well done for proving yourself to be one hell of a hypocrite. You stated that Wilde kick started the demise of this Club. Absolute rubbish, the demise was started and was well underway under Lowe. Relegation (whoever's fault it was) cost this Club millions and left us in a perilous state. I remember warning people about it, but you were too happy to claim this was purely anti Lowe rhetoric. Funny how the annual accounts showed 9million cash out the door on normal operations (even after allowing for a 7million parachute payment). Even Lowe himself, in an unguarded moment, revealed how impossible things were with his "don't know where the next penny was coming from". A "real problem" and "nothing compared to what followed"???? You had no clue about the finances back then and were quick to rubbish my warning of losing millions that first season down, and you are showing yourself to be none the wiser a few years on. In the first season under the new regime we made the play offs (something Lowe never achieved), we reduced our net debt and we reduced our cost base. All of the numbers are in the Annual Report and you would do well to go and read it. I am no apologist for what Hone and co did in the summer of 2007 and always adovcated retrenching following the loss of the parachute payments, and the major shareholders need to accept some of the blame around that time, as rather than fighting amongst themselves, they should have gotten hold of Hone and told him to rein it him. But even then, the few million overspend (as poor and unnecessary as it was), pales into comparison with the tens of millions lost under Lowe's tenure. Wilde's gang did not solve the problem and neither did Crouch solve the problem, but let's not forget that the problem was created under Lowe (who also did not solve it at the end of his first tenure and who is not solving it now either). As for your little digs re Anderson & Dulieu, well sadly they just smack of desperation, because you conveniently forget the underhand tactics employed by Lowe around the same time, the three PR companies he had on the payroll, the phantom postings on S4E, the playing off of supporters groups against each other, the manipulation of the OS and it's editor. I certainly don't agree with any of this dirty fighting, but to suggest it was all one sided is rewritng history. Lowe's poor decision making set off the train of events that we have been faced with over recent years, and no amount of blame shifting can alter that. I fully accpet that no one (including Lowe twice) has been able to turn things around (and they may even have exasperated the problem), but that does not alter the fact that Lowe kick-started, or actually sent us full throttle on the road to disaster.

How convenient of you to forget that the demise of this Club was already well underway following relegation under the tenure of Lowe. This Club was a busted flush the minute we got relegated following that disastrous last period overseen by Lowe. It's a pity that many who supported him back then weren't so keen to stand up to him (particularly around the Sturrock/Wigley fiasco). And judging by the fantastic results and atmosphere surrounding the Club following his return, I think his dismissal in 2006 was more than justified. What followed should definitely be open to debate and discussion, but let's not get the debate off on the wrong foot by forgetting the role Lowe played (and is continuing to play) in our demise. Lowe didn't kick start this Club's demise, he sent us hurtling off the cliff.

Aha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So it is the fans fault after all :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Glad you cleared that up;)

Not unless they can see into the future, as the AGM is tomorrow!!!! That said, i could give you a rough idea of how it will go. A bit of bluster from Lowe, the odd difficult question will be batted back by Lowe (who is very good in these situations) and then the classic line he has always trotted out which will be along the lines of, the future is bright with the academy ready to roll out some aces to save us on and off the pitch, we just need to give it some time (all of which is impossible to argue against, and he knows that!!).

I fully accept that Lowe had a logical thought approach behind appointing Jan & co, but that in no way means that: a) it was the only option, and b) it was the right option Pearson could so easily have been kept on, but instead Lowe went with his decision and he will have to be judged on it. You had contact with Wilde and the Lowe camp before they came in, surely you were aware that they did not approve of Pearson and were going to appoint their own man. For me, Administration is not the answer to our problems.

Taking responsibility ranges from holding up your hand and saying "I fccukced up" to saying "I believe the honorable thing would be for me to stand down". To what degree would depend on the decision, the context and whole host of other factors, so that's whay I think bring up something that happened 35 years ago is somewhat out of context. And if you read my reply to boring Bern then you will see that I would have asked just the same of Crouch as I do of Lowe. Anyone who is a temporary custodian of our Club should not be above questioning and being held to account (so feel free to stop peddling that boring line). Yes, he is. He's regularly involved with working with the coaching staff, particularly the youth side and has been doing so for about two years now.

If you had read my posts when Pearson was appointed (you really should try and read, and digest, before you post:rolleyes::rolleyes:), then I was quite clear that Crouch would have to take responsibility for the appointment. Following the Dodd & Gorman debacle, then I was quite clear that if Pearson failed, then Crouch would have had to take repsonsibility. You see, I judge people by their actions and try as far as possible to be consistent in my treatment of them. I wasn't shy in praising Lowe when he did well (and for a few years he did very well), and I wouldn't have been shy in criticising Crouch if I felt it was justified. But of course, that just wouldn't fit in with your blinkered approach on things;) At the end of last season we finished on a points per game ratio of 1.2+, not outstanding, but something to be built on. We had a manager who had the support of the fans and there was a feeling around the place that at last we had something to get behind. We are now on less than a point a game, probably in the relegation zone by the end of this week, 22nd in the current form table and with a Club that is tearing itself apart. No one will ever know whether Pearson would have been just as awful as Poortvliet is turning out to be, but I think if you took a straw poll then I reckon a clear majority (including my nephew) would say that they would have thought that Pearson would have performed better. Which way would you vote??? :smt044:smt044:smt044

But by the same token if his run of 1.2+ points per game wasn't that fantastic, then WTF does that say about Jan's return of less than a pont per game!!!!!! I actually think Pearson's tenure wasn't sensational, but given what he inherited (someone said 3 points from 18 and embarrassed at Bristol Rovers) and the context of a relegation battle it wasn't that bad.

Getting rid of Lowe may not solve all of the problems we are now faced with, but I think it's safe to say getting Lowe in certainly ratcheted up our problems. His first major decision in firing Pearson and hiring Poortvliet is proving to be another major fccukc up, up there with the appointment of Wigley in that relegation season.

To be fair to Lowe, he is in quite good company. For some reason football seems to attract weirdos, egomaniacs and failures!!!!! George Reynolds, Bates, Knighton, Goldberg, Scully, Maxwell, Alex Hamilton, you could go on and on and on.

LMFAO:D:D:D When he first said all that stuff in the Annual Report I was wetting myself, now six games on and 3 points out of 18, I'm almost crying!!!! I wonder what Iwelumo's current take on it all is?????:rolleyes:

I don't for one minute think Crouch has been sitting idly by watching all this unfold. Whether he is being met by a brick wall is another matter.

Rewind a bit and ask yourself why no "big" team has ever come knocking on his door. He's shiiyt here and he'd be shyyt at an even higher level. His CV shows one team of any real distinction and even that job was temporary for less than a season whilst the "real" manager got his coaching badges!!!!!!!!

For Poortvliet, read Wigley. Both are obviously really nice guys, both tried their best, but both were/are out of their depth. I can't blame Poortvliet for taking the job on, but I do think the twrat he appointed him should be held responsible. We had a manager of reasonable standard who was fully supported by the fan base, so wh the fckukc was he sacked???? Jan to go and Lowe to stand down.

If we lose all three, then the best that we can hope for would be to be 4th bottom, but with only one point between us and all three teams below us. In reality, I think it would mean we would be in the bottom three. However, I reckon we could get 4 or 5 points out of that lot, as I think the way Reading play suits us and think we could sneak a draw from at least one of the two away games. Hopefully that will be enough to keep us above Forest who must be our immediate rivals.