um pahars

Or of course attacking and mocking those who dared to suggest that Jan's abilities may have been a tad exagerated when he was first appointed. Some fine hypocrisy in this thread.:smt078

The OP might have gotten more respect from me had he not been one of the most vociferous and loudest moaners over the last couple of seasons! Maybe he should have made such a post a couple of years ago as opposed to moaning back then (then again I always find a post moaning about the moaners rather ironic). As for mentioning the support of the team, then maybe the OP would have been better turning up to games in recent seasons as opposed to staying away because there was "zero entertainment".

I also don' think it's a mentality issue, I just don't think he has the range of attributes to be successful in this division. I fail to understand his rationale of persevering with a system that is not working and his inability to either want, or be able, to change the formation we play. His comments that the players can play no other way is a real concern for me as I fail to see how it can be justified in any shape or form. He may well be a good coach, but this season we were crying out for a good manager!!!!! I'm not so sure!!!!! His comments in the Annual Report, the repeats at the AGM and his conversations with a number of people are extremely worrying. Whilst it could be dismissed as putting a brave face on it and talking us up, I do have very grave concerns that Lowe actually believes that we are playing well, and all that is required to make this work is some more time!!!!! As has been the problem for some time with this Club, I fear ego's are in play here and rather than accept things need to change (which would be a tacit acceptance of failure) I fear that those in power will blunder on in the vain hope that somehow this will come off. Even if I accept your argument that Lowe will be thinking about making changes, then although I accept he is not an idiot, I have my doubts that he will be able to make the right decision to get us out of this hole. After all, it was his selection of Poortvliet and his championing of this "Revolutionary Coaching Set Up" that has helped to create the mess we now find ourselves in!

But one of my problems with Jan is his inability (or refusal) to try and play any other way either for part of a match, or from the off. A few weeks back he suggested that the players cannot play another way, which is rather crass and quite frankly rather stubborn and certainly not flexible. For this to work, Jan would have to accept that some times there are different ways in which we may have to play, otherwise whoever comes in to work/help him would be just wasting their breath. Jan has to wake up and realise that playing the same formation/strategy week in, week out is not working. It's a bit like the first steps to recovery for an addict, in that one of the biggest steps is actually admit you have an addiction and things aren't rosey. Our first problem we have to overcome is the fact that the current manager and chairman don't believe we have a problem, that the football is wonderful and things will be alright in the end. That mentality has to change PDQ if we are to recover.

There is an argument as to whether it was 13 or 14 games (given the fact he rocked up the day before the Plymouth game and D & G were effectively preparing the team), but either way his points per game ratio was never 0.93 PPG. So at that point of talking bollcox, the rest of your views go out the window. As for his contract not being renewed, well if you want to cary on in a minority of about 4, then of course you're entitled to do that. Holding and espousing a different viewpoint is one thing, just making stuff up and talking bolokoks is entirely different.:rolleyes:

But my problem with that Ron, is that Lowe is intrinscially linked in at the football level. He picked these guys, he oversaw the implementation of the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up, the new strategy etc etc etc. He is not the solution, he and his strategies have been the problem. Removing Poortvliet, but keeping Lowe in on the day to day decisions (encompassing all the footballing ones as well) would be the shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic, as the overiding force (and ego) would still be in charge. The strategy would remain the same, the policy would remain the same and the direction would remain the same. IMHO for a new manager to have any chance of succeeding, he would have to be able to work how he wants to (within reason of course), not be constrained by the failed strategies Lowe has implemented and wants to follow.

Along with Charlton, who I think will get better of they appoint someone permanent and spend some of the parachute money. I don't think Doncaster will get better, I think Forest will improve marginally, and we may well need to be looking for another team to tail off in the second half to help us out as I can;t see how we are going to improve dramatically.

Indeed, we were the only Championship game on that night, BUT on other Monday nights other teams have played when we have sat it out. A couple of weeks before us, Burnley played Barnsley on a Monday night, having both played on the Saturday two days earlier. We are not the only ones who have played games in quick succession, nor will we be the only ones going forward,so it's a pathetic excuse, but something I expect from you, who continues to rattle out half truths and errors. Saturday, 06 December 2008 The Coca-Cola Football League Championship Derby1-2 (HT 1-1) Crystal PalaceVarney 41 McCarthy 3 Kuqi 61 Monday, 08 December 2008 The Coca-Cola Football League Championship Crystal Palace3-0 (HT 2-0) SouthamptonKuqi 9 Beattie 15 Ifill 75 Bookings: Hill 43 Bookings: Perry 87 And we played Sheff Weds on the Saturday before the Palace game!!!! My only agenda is to be fair, consistent and wherever possible factually correct (something you would do well to heed).

Whooooooossssssssssshhhhhhhhhh I doubt we were, or else Palace wouldn't have turned up (they played Derby on the Saturday). Then again, I still think we would have only managed a 0-0 draw. And I'm sure that wasn't the only Monday night game, which of course means other teams have had to play two games in three days. Jan seems to think it was an ideal opportunity to bounce back. Some people might liken it to falling off a bike and getting straight back on. If you were top of the table and had some niggly injuries you too might want a break, but at the end of the day them the rules and they're the same for everybody. Using it as an excuse is scraping the bottom of the proverbial barrel. The fixture list is the same for every team in this division, if we can't handle that fixture list, then it just shows that under Lowe and Poortvliet we can't handle this division. I can remember QPR on Xmas Eve & Luton Town on Boxing Day. Excuses have their uses, but now they're all used up, all used.

I fully accept that some just aren't good enough, but I also think others aren't preforming to their best because of tactics, strategies, formations, motivation etc, all things that a new manager could improve/change. The January window might even give us a chance to wheel and deal and get some loans in to replace the poorer players. We need to be looking at this and thinking, this window is probably the only chance we will get to make adjustments to our strategy.

Excuses, have their uses, but now they're all used up, all used © Martn Fry I presume we must be the unfortunate Club as we are the only team who has to play on Boxing Day and then on the following Sunday:rolleyes::rolleyes: Bern, start up a petition to lobby the Championship about this unfair rule which we only suffer from.

Let's all rejoice just because we're as bad as Charlton. Let's all rejoice because we're better than Leeds. Let's all rejoice because we're better than Huddersfiled. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Just because other teams are worse than us we are all expected to thank our lucky stars and put just nochalantly accept our poor position. What a noddy attitude. Suppose it could be worse, I could be supporting Luton:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I am now getting to a point where I wonder whether you are senile!!!:smt035 Most of the stuff above could have been written by my little nephew, who depsite only being 6 said to me yesterday: "It still amazes me how people can blindly follow the crass experiment implemented by Lowe, and activated by Poortvliet. If action isn't taken soon to curtail this folly, then I fear for the future of this once great Club. There may come a time when I have to stop going and start protesting. Lowe's comeback has been a complete and utter failure, on a par with Napoleon's comeback from Elba in 1815. And why do all old people smell of stale urine?":rolleyes: You would do well to read in more detail what others post and then take time to take it all in, before you start thumping the keyboard.;)

Part of that matches with what I heard yesterday, in that I was told Wotton and Jan had a stand up row, hence why Wotton has been banished. If he's lost the dressing room, then he is finished (or we are!!!!!).

As I said above, if you go back 8 games then our current form lifts us two places to 22nd!!! http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/oform.html

Propping up the current form table!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.4thegame.com/statistics/championship/tables/currentform.html Doesn't make pleasant reading (although we're only 22nd in the last 8 games current form table)

But I think they can. Firstly they can criticise him for not getting the best out of the squad he currently has. His poor team selections, his lack of strategies, his fixation with Total Football, his lack of motivation, his inexperience etc etc etc. Secondly they can criticise him for the squad he has acquired. He has brought in something like 12 players, so he has not just had to work with an existing squad. Financial constraints will of course play a part with regards who he can keep and who he can bring in, but there can be no doubting that there was a sizeable degree of latitude with reagrds building up a squad that should have been strong enough not to be in this position. Whichever way you want to look at it, i think Poortvliet has been found wanting!!!!

I think the manager has to take responsibility for the poor results that we arew itnessing under his stewardship. I also think those involved in the procurement and scouting of players have to take responsibility for the obvious failings they have presided over. And of course I think the CEO/PLC Chairman has to take overall responsibility for employing Jan (and his merry men) and for implementing this Revolutionary Coaching Set Up which is failing miserably. This is more than the appointment of a poor manager and I fail to see how even the most rabid Lowe supporter could think otherwise. Lowe is intrinsically tangled in with the Poortvliet appointment. He proactively sought out the job of CEO/Chairman for himself removing the existing incumbents, he removed Pearson to enable Jan to come in, he established the strategy and whichever way you look at it, nailed his colours firmly to this mast. If Poortvliet goes, then so does Lowe. (and at that point I would somehow like to see his small shareholding taken off of him, so we can be rid of such a divisive influence once and for all.)

I think the manager has to take responsibility for the poor results that we arew itnessing under his stewardship. I also think those involved in the procurement and scouting of players have to take responsibility for the obvious failings they have presided over. And of course I think the CEO/PLC Chairman has to take overall responsibility for employing Jan (and his merry men) and for implementing this Revolutionary Coaching Set Up which is failing miserably. This is more than the appointment of a poor manager and I fail to see how even the most rabid Lowe supporter could think otherwise. Lowe is intrinsically tangled in with the Poortvliet appointment. He proactively sought out the job of CEO/Chairman for himself removing the existing incumbents, he removed Pearson to enable Jan to come in, he established the strategy and whichever way you look at it, nailed his colours firmly to this mast. If Poortvliet goes, then so does Lowe. (and at that point I would somehow like to see his small shareholding taken off of him, so we can be rid of such a divisive influence once and for all.)

He may be a decent man, but he has accomplished fccukuk all in real terms in football management. Please don't be fooled by what the Echo and the OS put up regarding his managerial successes. (Now just read the rest of the thread and see 70's Mike has already had a pop, so sorry for the double team, but can only add that even his only notable promotion was when he was out in temporary charge whilst the real manager - Vloet - got his coaching badges and I understand Vloet still ran the things on the pitch with Jan just being a stooge).

He may be a decent man, but he has accomplished fccukuk all in real terms in football management. Please don't be fooled by what the Echo and the OS put up regarding his managerial successes. (Now just read the rest of the thread and see 70's Mike has already had a pop, so sorry for the double team, but can only add that even his only notable promotion was when he was out in temporary charge whilst the real manager - Vloet - got his coaching badges and I understand Vloet still ran the things on the pitch with Jan just being a stooge).

That would have paid for Nigel Pearson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! False economy me up!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

That would have paid for Nigel Pearson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! False economy me up!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

Before today, Plymouth were bottom of the current form table, so if it's no surprise to lose to them, then I presume it will be no surprise when we get relegated. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Before today, Plymouth were bottom of the current form table, so if it's no surprise to lose to them, then I presume it will be no surprise when we get relegated. :rolleyes::rolleyes: