um pahars

I agree with you there Chez, in that at any Club the manager has to be the top man and no player should be talking out of line. The board should always back the manager over a player (as Lawrie was backed a number of times during his tenure). BUT what it does show is that there is some disunity and unrest in the dressing room which is very worrying and often ends up eating up any club.

I'm with you on this one C B Fry in that I think it could be good news for us as I'm also not convinced about this appointment. Our equivalent would be going for Nick Holmes, and as much as I admire what he has achieved at Salisbury, I wouldn't want him as first choice to replace Jan.

I was going to post an "Is Saga free to play Saturday Thread???", but it looks as though the Echo have cleared up the matter, and as I thought the OS has been economical with the truth (once again). I have no problem with the dilemna the Echo sets out that the Club are facing (personally if we're not looking to bring anyone else in, then I would try and keep Saga for the rest of the season, but I can also see the other side of the argument), BUT why did they have to lie and dress it up with "the paperwork hasn't come through?". Treat the fans with contempt and it will soon blow up in your face. How about trying to be honest with them for a change? http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4022102.Saints_in_quandary_over_Saganowski/

I've got you a programme, so stick up an e mail addy and Ill get in contact.

Did you post something similar in the Autumn of 2004????

I don't know about that. There were calls for Wigley and Gray to go as well (although he did capitulate in the end)!!!!!

Come off it. You don't need to know the full details of the comparable packages to get a good gut feel on this one. If we were only ever dealing in facts, then nothing would ever be discussed on here. But as you say he would have done it anyway and money was not the motivator, a new footballing strategy was. A strategy that Lowe will have to stand or fall by.

With all due respect, I would probably put Jan in the same category as Gray & Wigley etc etc etc who should never have got the job in the first place. There is nothing to suggest we are improving, in fact I would argue exactly the opposite having not won in 10 games or so.

I can see us getting 4 points (1 at Barnsley & 3 v Donny). Charlton and Donny have a fairly tough few games, whereas Forest have a relatively easy run. I fear Forest could pull away, so we need someone to fall back into the pack. Problem is we have Norwich away, so they can pull away, so we may be looking elsewhere. This month could see us cemented at the bottom with Charlton and Donny, so therefore we probably have to be getting more than my 4 points to stay in there. Charlton Forest (h) Sheff Wed (a) Palace (h) Possible 2 - 4 points Doncaster Bristol City (h) Saints (a) Sheff Utd (a) I can see 1 to 3 points Forest Charlton (a) Plymouth (h) Sheff Weds (h) Potential of 4 - 7 points

Whilst I concur that as age and continually being shortchanged have made me less demanding of a Saints victory every time I visit St Mary's, I do have to take exception with your line above. Whilst I can understand how you appreciated the football from United which was flowing, classy, passionate and embracing, I fail to see how you could appreciate almost anything we served up! Have your standards lowered with age as well?

Or even a throw back to the Wigley era.

that he thought it would be better is not a problem for me. If that's what he thought, then as the man in charge that's up to him and he will be judged by its success or failure. But I don't get the cheaper bit. I bet the disparity between Wotte/Poortvliet and Pearson isn't that much. Even if it is a six figure sum (and I dont think it's even that big), then in the grand scheme of things that's not a lot to ensure you've got the best man. And there is nothing in anything that Pearson has ever said to suggest that he was not willing to play the youngsters, nor that he was not willing to lose some of the higher paid earners (see the comments from him above). He was acutely aware of the financial constraints he would have to operate under and I quite frankly if Lowe held the purse strings, then he would have no other option but to work to his budgets.

And that's where you should have ended your post!!!!!!!! This was a footballing decision, pure and simple and to think otherwise is ridiculous.

Absolute rubbish. Pearson was easily affordable and when you consider that the manager is the single most important person at any Club it is a total false economy to go for the cheap option. WE COULD HAVE AFFORDED PEARSON! As for his liking for a journeyman squad, here are some words from Pearson, which make it clear that he was aware of the financial constraints he would have to work under, but how he still felt he could improve the team: "It will be a combination. The reality is there will be comings and goings, there is no doubt about that. Economics will play a part and there will be some natural wastage as players come to the end of their contracts. Then it will be a case of finding players who fit the bill. We need a side capable of getting success but which fits in with the financial situation. But we are not going to be splashing fortunes on players. Even in the short time I have been here, I have been looking to see if we can get players on loan. Short-term is the immediate priority but I am looking long-term too." He was also up for using the Academy and the youth players in the future. "A lot of my background is working with youngsters. I worked with the England youth teams for three years and I see the Academy as a massive part of the club. I have worked at clubs where the academy and first-team are separate entities and not integrated at all and those clubs are the poorer for it. If you put the right effort into recruiting and developing the right players then it can save the club a lot of money on transfer fees." The decision to sack Pearson and replace him with Poortvliet was a massive, massive, massive mistake and one that is hitting us on the pitch with lost points and hitting us off the pitch with lost fans in the stands and lost pounds in the bank.

Spot on. We offered nothing, we never hassled them, we never got in their faces, the tactics and line up were poor etc etc etc. The Championship table does not lie, we are poor and going backwards. The sooner some face up to that fact, the sooner we might be able to turn it around. I remember the platitudes and the "we'll turn the corner" comments from the last relegation season.

But then he should have been aware of that at the start of the season before he went down this route. Plenty of idiots on here pointed out that the youngsters aren't used to this number of games. I do worry that he has not been given full control of all footballing affairs, whihc for me is a big concern. As we have seen at other clubs over here it has caused no end of problems, and it doesn't appear to be working fr us either.

We have brought in 13 new faces since last summer so add up all the agents fees, loan fees (where applicable), transfer fees, a new coach in Gorre, and there must be an element of leeway in the finances. It's certainly not "we can afford anyone" time, but there has been some flexibility. Of those 13 faces, 2 maybe 3 have played any meaningful part in the season so far. How much better would it have been if those signings had been more focussed or overseen by a manager with a bit of nous of this league??? Then of course with each extra 2,000 bums on seats equating to a million over a season, it's not difficult to see how success on the pitch easily translates into money in the bank. Nothing is guaranteed of course, but the easiest way of boosting revenue is by winning games (particularly at home). And that's before even considering that Poortvliet has underperformed even with the limited squad at his disposal. Nothing is guaranteed in football, but I very much doubt if many on here (or in the real world) think that Pearson would have performed as poorly as Jan. Of course finances dictate many of the decisions we take, but sacking Pearson and installing this "Revolutionary Coaching Set Up" was not driven by financial motivation.

IMHO I do think we are somewhat underperforming and that a manager with more nous than Jan would be getting more of out of the existing resources. I certainly don't think we have a strong enough squad to be pushing for the play offs, but I do think Jan has underperformed. I also think a more astute manager would also have utilised what little money we had much better last summer. So before we can think about having a decent team I would argue we first need a decent manager, then some astute signings and of course to oversee this change in strategy a more competent CEO

Although you allude to it later in your post, I have to say I do think you are rather missing the point with your analysis. With the exception of one or two dreamers, I think the vast majority of Saints fans are aware that we are up shi87t creek with regards finances and how our financial problems have a massive impact on what we can and cannot do. The financial issues certainly constrain what we would like to do, BUT they do not mean that we have not had choices or not had different strategies that we could have followed. Whilst there may have been a limit on the number of different routes we could have taken, there is no way that this was the only possible path that we could have followed. And the single biggest decision that we have made was the decision that has the biggest single impact on any football team, notably the decision to sack Pearson and go with a total non entity in Poortvliet. This decision had minimal (if any) reference to our finances. Pearson was not on mega wages, Pearson worked with youngsters in the past and Pearson was open about having to lose the big stars and having to play more of the youngsters in the future. That decision was not forced upon Lowe due to financial implications, that was a decision that he made for footballing reasons, and it is a decision that is costing us on and off the pitch. On the pitch performances are hitting us in the league table as we sit in the bottom two and show no sign of improving. 13 new faces have come in which indicate there is some flexibility within the squad, it's just a shame that the few resources we had have not been utilised wisely at this crucial time. Poor performances (notably at home) are also hitting us off the pitch as attendances slump. An extra 1,000 bums on seats for each game equates to something like half a million over a season. Rather than continually cutting costs, maybe we should also be considering growing revenue! So whilst money plays a big part in what strategies we can or cannot pursue, the lack of it does not exonerate the poor decisions relating to the recruitment of a new manager and the subsequent signings, tactics and performances under him.

Given all the platitudes, excuses and mutterings from jan on that site to date, whatever he now says has little worth in my eyes. I initially felt sorry for him accepting a job that was obviously out of his league, but with every game that passes and with every platitude and promise he spouts, that sympathy is quickly evaporating. He really should do the right thing and stand down.

And sorry if my post came across a bit harsh, it's just it's sooooo depressing watching this Club slide into oblivion and those in charge refusing to do anything mainly, IMHO, due to their own intransigence and arrogance.

Maybe we should do some research into his past before we start saying he has some pedigree!!!!!!! We know what happened the last time we took it on face value with regards a potential Dutch Coach!!!!!!!! This was from a Feyenoord Blog: After Van Marwijk went, most fans asked for Martin Jol (who was keen to come). But the club management thought Jol looked “too fat” to manage a top club (true story). And instead chose Gullit. Because Gullit is (was) cool, glib, popular, etc… Someone appointed former youth player Mark Wotte as technical director. Why? Nobody knows. Wotte was a mediocre coach at mediocre clubs. Didn’t have any management experience at all. Still, he was in charge of building a new Feyenoord, with Ruud Gullit. I don’t know how many players came from how many different countries, but at the end of the day, Wotte/Gullit failed. Miserably. Ebi Smolarek was told to leave (he went to Borussia Dortmund where he had a sensational season), Buffel was told to leave (he became a sensation at Glasgow Rangers) and many no-names came.

With all due respect Phil, I struggle to understand how you can say the experiment is a good idea, and then go on and tear it to pieces and come up with a totally different startegy. You're bit after the BUT is spot on, but that's a million miles away from the Revolutionary Caoching Set Up that has been established.

As in I've been worried that he's Wigleyesque from the off and it makes me go mad for the Wigley balls up to be repeated!!!!!!!!!! It's just been like watching a train come hurtling towards you. AAAAArrrrrrrggggggghhhhh

AAAAaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh