um pahars

The only flaw there Phil is that Crouch was in no mood to walk away. He was more than willing to stay, work with Pearson and try and get things moving. It was Lowe and his cabal's decision to put him and Pearson on the sidelines.

Not sure I would agree on this one. Adam Leitch needs to stand up and be counted. The way the Echo panders to the Club and toes the party line is an absolute disgrace. They should be in there asking questions, refelcting what the vast majority of supporters are thinking and reporting honestly and independently. Instead we get a slightly different version of the Official Site printed every day. In fact, I actually have more respect for Simon Carter because he at least used to have the balls to stand up to Lowe and ask awkward questions. If anything, I think the Echo's reporting has become watered down and psycophantic since Carter has been somewhat sidelined. If this was happening anywhere else the local media and supporters would be asking some serious questions, not coming up with excuses and reporting from some parallel universe.

What is comical is how so many who think it is a storm in a tea cup either try and move the debate away from the real issues, start to insult others or miss the point entirely. Firstly this has absolutely nothing to do with Lowe's background, his fondness for shooting or his preferred sport being hockey. To suggest otherwise is just diverting the issue. Secondly there is nothing wrong with the Chairman/CEO dictating the parameters within which the manger manages, i.e. transfer kitty available, salary budget available and setting target & objectives. He should also be involved in contract negotiations, transfer negotiations and dealing with agents. Thirdly, there is nothing wrong if the Manager/Head Coach decides he wants to go overwhelmingly with youth. That would be his decision and he would have to be judged on it. But the problem comes from this part of the response from Basset: This clearly states that the Chairman/CEO is second guessing the manager, interfering with team selection and stepping into areas of detail that he should be nowhere near. Once given the general parameters to work with the manager should be left to manage. Of course he should be overseen, reviewed and assessed, but the Chairman/CEO should in no way be interfering with team affairs on this level. Now if Lowe was prepared to interfere at this level with someone as 'backward looking', 'dinosauric' and 'traditional' as Redknapp, just what level is he interfering with poor old puppet Jan?????

To compare Wenger to Jan is hilarious. Just because some of the myopic English media had a whinge hardly means Wenger was a poor appointment. Anyway, regardless of prior experience or success, there's one sure fire way of silencing your critics, and that's by winning matches. Wenger managed that, Jan hasn't really set the world alight.

IMHO He didn't sue Gray when he told the truth regarding Delgado. Instead he rubbished him on the OS and really laid into Wadsworth as well (I'm sure the attack was so vitriolic, that it was eventually pulled/amended). He won't sue Bassett on this one, so I await 'radio silence' this time around or maybe a rubbishing/smear story on the OS. As for The Echo running with anything like this, forget it. There's a nice 'cosy' agreement between the two and they won't be upsetting the apple cart. Some people at The Echo need to have a look at themselves for toadying up to the Club in recent months.

Two trains of thought. First one is as you say, if I'm going down then I'll fight to the bitter end and only concede defeat when Administration is enforced upon me. I will only lose my money when Administration is actually upon us. The second one could be that if a major creditor was saying 'Accept the money and move aside, or I'll put you in Administration', then there really is no alternatve and you will lose your money your money either way. Of course, there is a choice, but I worry that out of malice, pride or spite, Lowe & co may go for the first.

Says it all really.

Yes, one up top. Yes, I know we are three down, but we always play one up top. Yes, one up top. One, one, one, comprende????? We always play one up top PS SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hockaday certainly is Lowe's favoured one, that's for sure. His name was being banded about well before Lowe took over again.

But once again why are we looking to blame the fans??? I, and I'm sure the vast, overwhelming majority don't want this to end in tears, but if it does then it won't be our fault. Nor should we be blamed for not having a Plan B. Those in charge, those with large shareholdings, those who lead this Club have to take responsibility for their actions and for what the solution is. Lowe claimed he had a mandate last time around and that was achieved with the support of a maximum of ten people. Maybe we should be looking to them to see what they think Plan B is??? We don't have any say in what goes on, apart from the ultimate sanction of voting with our feet (but even then that is only a rejection of the status quo, not a positive solution). We're just supporters who have no real say, we just want our team to do well.

It would not solve our long term issues, but there is a possibility it could buy us some time in the short term. If the choice is Administration or Crouch pumping a few million in, then i would bite his hand off. The problem is whether the current regime would accept it, how it would be lent, what strings comed with it etc etc etc. (it would be pretty difficult for Crouch to accept being the only one pumping in money if those who took us down this final track to oblivion are to benefit from it). Some would argue Crouch should accept others from benefitting from it, if it means the Club benefits, but personally as it would be him doing all the fundng, it should be the others who make concessions. If there not prepared to put any money in then maybe they have to step aside. Hone and co put it all on Red last summer that's for sure, and at that point Crouch was out of the loop. He never got a chance to really do anything during his tenure and it wasn't long after the got his chance to play that the two amigos were launching their 9 point crusade in the local press (it would be interesting to measure them by the same yardstick). And this summer has been nothing more than another gamble, but this time the stakes really were the future of the Club. Even if a cash injection only buys us some time, I would still take it. The problem is can those currently in control find a way of facilitating this???

I've also got this image of Lowe quickly deleting all the e mails whilst God is talking to Peter, or maybe Cowen sat outside rerouting all the emails to the junk folder!!!!!!!! This will be done his way (no capitals for the h as this "his" is Lowe!!!!).

I started doing that weeks ago!!! I have this picture from Bruce Almighty with God's Inbox full of prayers from Saints fans asking for salvation.

A different management team could have done a lot of things differently than the current lot, to suggest otherwise is fantasy land stuff. It might have produced better results, then again it might not have. To deny there was an alternative is unrealistic. Of course it could have been even worse, but from what I have seen so far (and from our league position etc etc etc) you would probably have struggled to have got worse than what we have been left with. Management teams aren't homogenous. They don't all achieve exactly the same with the same resources. There is nothing to say that a different team wouldn't have produced better (or indeed worse) results. The problem is that the "best" that the current lot is doing is beginning to look not good enough. Points on the board tell us it isn't good and the dwindling attendances consolidate that. Indeed there isn't, but as each week passes so does the fear that the "revolutionary coaching set up" isn't the right answer grows. I don't think it will be long before this comes to a head one way or the other.

The minute Wilde and Lowe teamed up it was over all bar the shouting for Crouch. Of course there was hope that it wouldn't go through and we wouldn't be facing the disaster we now have. It was their decision to upset the apple cart. We had a manager who had managed to deliver a semblence of pride and unity. We had the support of the bank (within the obvious constraints). They were the ones who decided to undo all that, and now a few months down the line they're going around with the begging bowl with the ar55se hanging out of the team on the pitch. It may not have touched the existing shareholders (because arguably like ours they don't have the readies to contribute), but it certainly affected the existing shareholders. There's no way the Club should be asking for a "loan" of any type from Crouch, it has to be in exchange for something. This is a commercial PLC. It appears Lowe wants to have his cake and eat it on this one. Surely if the only way of saving the Club in the short term is to step aside (and maybe even forfiet shares or something similar), then Lowe and Wilde should be prepared to do that, particularly if the alternative is admin and meltdown. What is Lowe currently bringing to the party????

How about the current PLC Board putting us into Administration rather than conceding defeat (or accepting support)???????

Richards is firmly a part of the Lowe cabal. Always has been. Quite simply, there was never any attempt at that Runnymede meeting (or at any point up until Crouch sounded out Salz) of them looking outside their own circle. I reckon Crouch could, and probably would, put some money in even if it meant just buying us some time. However, there is no way he should be expected to that without some movement from others. Now that could mean asking others to contribute as well, or it could be them forfeiting their shares. As long as we're a commercial PLC then I fail to see how Crouch can put his money in. Of course it might buy the Club some time, but this isn't a charity and it would be particularly galling for him to pump money in knowing that if it comes off, then one of the biggest smiles will be on Lowe's face. Rewind back a few months and Lowe and Wilde's attacks in the press as we were fighting a relegation battle was nothing about a compromise. As it stands at the moment, I fail to see what Lowe (& Wilde) brings to the party at the moment apart from division, rancour and failure. And if their presence is stopping an SOS from Crouch, then their position becomes close to being untenable. I'm not sure of exactly how it would/could work, but if there is a chance to buy some time with a Crouch bail out, then it has to be seriously examined. If it means some have to dip out and forfeit their shares then maybe so be it. It might not be ideal, it might not be a long term solution, but if the alternative is going under then it might be all we have.

If, and I think it's a bloody big IF , then I reckon Hockaday would be in the frame. He definitely has Lowe's ear.

What is the main problem then IYHO??

But going back to the OP I just don't think that scenario will ever pan out, regardless of Lowe's past hiring and firing past. If Jan goes, then Lowe has to go, it's as simple as that. But as far as I tell, there is no way Lowe would walk away again so soon after coming back. His ego and his personality wouldn't allow it. No way in the world would he pull the plug on his experiment so soon after implementing it and admit to failing. Jan is here until it works or until it goes ti77ts up. I remember saying to Rupert that I thought he was drinking in the last chance saloon when he appointed Wigley, but he must surely be drinking in there now!!!!! The only problem of course is that it will be the last chance saloon for Southampton Football Club 1885 Ltd as well.

Was it Public Enemy who sung Don't Believe The Hype?????

Problem is though Phil I have honestly never witnessed such a collective amount of pessimism at the ground and in the city before. In the good few drinking hours before the match there was always a glimmer of hope, a hope that we had turned the corner, but it was always said through gritted teeth and never completely believable. At the match, although the support was pretty good, there was almost a resigned sense of being in the mire big time. I think people are apathetic and just going through the motions and can't even be ars5ed to have a moan!!!! But out last night it was like a wake. The only positive was that maybe, just maybe there are three teams worse than us this season. Then again, if this carries on like this until January and there is an exodus then I fear that will eliminate even the faintest of hope that may still be out there.

In the grand scheme of things, potential saviours appearing (and then disappearing) aren't dripping away on the morale of everyone. I very much dount that many at SMS are even aware of a Fulthorpe / Crouch / A N Other rescue package. It's confined to a few obsessed internet freaks on here LOL. Quite simply what is dripping away at the morale of people is poor performances at home and the lack of any real success. We have the second worst home record in this division and that's what is killing this Club in terms of lack of points and lack of punters!!!!!!!

If Jan really is on peanuts, then surely it wouldn't take much to pay him off. And then if the choice is failure Vs stretching the budget to get an experienced manager in, then I'm sure people will see that it would be a false economy not to spend some money on the single most important person at a football club. The cost of failure will be more than the cost of a decent manager that's for sure. That said, I still think Jan is worthy of our support, but that's not to say he is immune from criticism or a later review.

But the problem is that fewer and fewer people are lying in the bed that Lowe made. Now of course you can blame the fans for not turning up, but ultimately this experiment is having a detrimental effect on attendances.