um pahars

Ultimately we are paying the price for relegation. It may be a few years ago, but IMHO all that has happened in those intervening years is that parachute payments and player sales delayed the inevitable. There can be no doubt that the failure to implemant a Plan B by Hone and co last summer certainly has not helped our financial situation, but our problems stem from relegation which created a systemic hole in our finances, and not a one off overspend. I doubt that even the most brutal of Plan B's would see this Club able to cover it's costs. The infrastructure and cost base of this Club is impossible to fund on a £13m-£14m income. This is something that Wilde was quite open about when he posted on here a year or so ago and is a problem almost every established Premiership club (and a few others) have had to face up to. The strategy of retaining a "Quasi Premiership" set up during the parachute period in an attempt to gain "repromotion", is a strategy that Lowe, Wilde, Hone & many others in the footballing world subscribe to, as they realise the only surefire way of avoiding financial meltdown is promotion to the top flight.

I haven't been against him from day one. I have always hoped that he would be a success. Nothing would give me more pleasure than Jan succeeding and Saints climbing up the table. Anyone who would rather have their concerns come to fruition (so they can be proved right on noddy internet message board) to the detriment of the Club is not a true supporter in my eyes. I certainly had my doubts about his suitability, I certainly had my doubts about the way he was bigged up, I certainly had my doubts that his CV and success in Holland was embellished, and I certainly voiced those concerns, but I was more than wiling to give him a chance and support him. I have often come on here and said that he come across very well in interviews and after hearing him speak first hand he ticks some of the boxes require of a manager. I have also argued that he needs to be given time, but I still have my doubts and they are increasing with each week that goes by. That's not being against him, that's just espousing an opinion as a Saints fan. Targets, optimism and confidence are indeed all necessary. But hand in hand with them comes results. Eventually targets, optimism and confidence ill be worth nothing if we continue with poor performances and a low league position. They be nothing more than meaningless platitudes. What I alluding to was that he clearly underestimated the ability of our squad and more importantly was not aware of what the CCC entails. We spent all summer building up a pretty, attacking, flowing, passing team, only for Jan to now find out that it's a pretty poor division with quite a bit of rough and tumble. We needed a manager who would hit the ground running, not learn on the job at one of the most critical points in the Club's history. I was worried as much about his abilities as a coach as I was about undertaking such a gamble at such a delicate time. All I am saying is that the time for promises, rallying calls and targets has passed. The honeymoon period is over and Jan has to start delivering. The current return of less than a point a game is poor, and the longer that form continues the worse that statistic begins to look. Jan will be judged not by his interviews with the OS and The Echo, but on results. You can't twist the league table.

At the start of the season he said the following: "Since I joined Southampton, the quality in the squad I have seen is lovely. They're ready in terms of football and physically............I believe in the boys because they have qualities - I've never seen qualities like it. In terms of our aims this season, myself I go out to play for the prizes," However, the most telling part of his quotes that day was: "The only thing I don't know is the quality of all the opponents." Maybe someone should list out all his promises, targets etc, and ask him for some retrospective feedback!!!!!!! Quite frankly, the time for spin, rallying calls, new targets etc etc etc is over. With a run of tough games taking us towards the halfway stage of the season, it is time for Jan and his team to stop talking and to start delivering.

I was thinking of something very similar. My analogy was going on a blind date set up by a close friend, only to be met by a big, fat, ugly munter. The next day you tell your friend the blind date had a lovely personality. Until the League start awarding points for pretty play or completed passes, methinks we should stick to gaining points the orthodox way (i.e. scoring and winning, or at least drawing).

It wasn't quite that much! It was more like £400k for a couple of years at its peak.

I'm sure that was the game that he got injured in the warm up and still played (did we have a keeper on the bench as I thought we were right out of them at that point!!!!!).

Since about the same time that Lowe should have put that £1million in a Building Society.

Well maybe you should go back and dig out these quotes of mine saying that Wilde would be our saviour. And if you think I (or others) guaranteed that things would be hunky dory, then like many of your other posts on here, you're into the realms of pure fantasy. What I did say however was that under Lowe's stewardship we were going nowhere and change was necessary. We were nowhere near getting promoted under Lowe and the Club was going backwards at a very alarming rate. I still stand by that and Lowe's recent return has just hardened that belief, as once again we are going even further backwards under his stewardship with the Club slowly imploding. He was a divisive figure then (as well as a poor strategist in this league) and he is exactly the same this time around. Instead, what you will find is a consistent warning from the day we got relegated that unless we got promoted within the parachute period we would really struggle. Of course many viewed that as anti Lowe rhetoric back in 2005, bu sadly those chickens have come home to roost. I would actually say that the first season with Wilde/Hone at the helm did show some spirit and some belief on and off the pitch. Attendances held up against the prior season (when many season tickets were bought when we were still in the top flight) and getting into the play offs was the closest we ever got to being promoted and saving ourselves from a finanical meltdown. We got closer to promotion (and ultimate salvation) under Wilde/Hone than we did under Lowe. We are now facing the problem of a £13m income and a cost base and infrastruture that is (and probably always will be) in excess of that.

Darren Moore would have done!!!!!!

I don't think anyone has ever come up with a definitive answer/ guaranteed way of succeeding in this league. At best I think people have arued for a good mix of youth and experience (along with a decent manager). On paper, both of those sides look very strong and certainly shouldn't have crumbled the way they did. Something was very wrong back then at the start of that season (and I think Burley was the main reason) as from memory we alternated from these drubbings, to beating the likes of West Brom at home and Sheff Utd away in the same period!!!!!

Well we're defintiely short at the back, so here's hoping. What's the deal with loans as I thought someone on here said we had already used our full quota up???? And Chez, if you cast your mind back to last season, it took a bit of time to get Wright sorted out when we were struggling for keepers. Sometimes it's not just as easy as picking up the phone to rent-a-centre half, so maybe we should just be grateful that our defensive frailties have at last appeared on someone's radar.

It's a decision that should be left to the manager. The manager is the most important person at a football club and he will be judged by results on the pitch. If Jan decided that he wanted Dyer, then fine we should have tried to get him a new contract, if not then he should have been released. If the manager doesn't rate him and was never going to play him, then his wages would just be a drain on the Club's resources. £5k a week across a 3 year deal we add up to £1million once all the add ons get thrown in. If that was the case and he was hardly likely to figure in a CCC side, then I'm not sure someone would pay the money required to recoup the wages we had paid. We are talking about a football club here, not a company trading in prospective footballers. Poortvliet's job is to deliver success on the pitch and he shouldn't have some of his wage budget used up by others running a buy and sell shop on the side (that's what Hoddle's Academy is all abiout, we're a professional football club).

But why should we try to keep someone if they're rubbish, won't feature in the managers plans and unlikely to cost us more than any potential transfer fee. It's the managers job to decide on these things. That's what he gets judged on. Dyer might work out, but then again he may not, but these decisions should be the decisions of the manager, not the Chairman using players as commodities and trading in them for the hope of a profit somewhere down the line. The job of the manager is to manage his squad, not have signings thrust upon him in the hope they might make us some money at some point in the future. We have seen at a number of clubs recently what happens when players are bought without the approval of the manager. If the manager wants a player, then the Club should do everything it possibly can to get that player for him, but it should not be the other way around. Look at our biggest signing this season, Scheiderlin. He was signed without the manager even seeing him play. He could lead us to promotin, he could leave us being worth a mint, but he could also be using up a large tranche of our "spare cash" which could have been better used elsewhere if only the manager had the freedom to manage.

If Basseya fitted in with the managers plans and the manager wanted him, then we should be doing everything to keep him. It's the managers decision on who he wants and on who he doesn't want.

I can remember everyone hyping up the home game against QPR a couple of seasons back. I think it was the largest gate so far and yet we didn't play well and got turned over. However, I think pro's probably would like a full stadium giving maximum home support, but I would also like to see regular 10-0 wins, £1 entry and strippers at half time. Howeve, the attendance issue is pretty simple. In the absence of anyone at the top who can engender a spirit of togetherness which might tempt people back, we need to win matches to pull in the punters. Just because players might like to perform in front of larger crowds it will have no affect on the size of the crowd:rolleyes::rolleyes:

And therein lies the problem for me. Rightly or wrongly, as long as we aren't going great guns on the pitch, then Lowe will be seen as a divisive figure amongst many of the fanbase. We certainly need to engender a spirit of togetherness to help us get through this dark period, but sadly I feel that as long as Lowe is at the helm then we will never achieve such a spirit. If there was someone/something to rally around, then Killer's words would be seen as a call to arms. Instead, it is seen by many as a desperate attempt by Lowe to get us onside. Neither he nor Wilde can engender that spirit as there is too much history behind them and instead of uniting the supporters, they actually exasperate the divide and bitterness.

Jan was appointed a month before Basseya left. Of course it could well be Basseya made his decision to leave in the two weeks between Lowe coming back and Jan being appointed, but once again you have to ask why is the Chairman so closely involved with player issues.

And if they had been interfering in areas they shouldn't have, then that would have made their tenure even worse than it actually was. Perhaps when Lowe criticised the old regime for not supporting the manager and failing to manage him he ahd this type of "managing" in mind.

And if they had been interfering in areas they shouldn't have, then that would have made their tenure even worse than it actually was. Perhaps when Lowe criticised the old regime for not supporting the manager and failing to manage him he ahd this type of "managing" in mind.

I don't remember Jim Hone or Ken Dulieu doing it.

I did say current!!!!! ?????

If you go for C, then the next person get's to work as a B, as there is no way Lowe can stay if his "revolutionary coaching set up" is dismantled. That is why IMHO, Lowe will view it as A or D. Jab's going nowhere IMHO as it would undermine Lowe. This appointent either succeeds or the Club goes into meltdown.