um pahars

What happens at other clubs has no bearing whatsoever to what happens to us. Just because other clubs have fallen on hard times doesn't mean we should just shrug our shoulders and accept crap managers, crap chairman and crap players. "They're rubbish, so we might as well just be as bad":rolleyes::rolleyes: You're quite right it was no accident, rather it was as a direct result of a number of poor decisions which culminated in relegation. And the person overseeing the majority of those poor decisions (and particularly those that had the most negative impact) was Lowe. I have no problem with the issue of relegation, the meritocracy of the league system or that the league table never lies, but I also believe you shouldn't bury your head in the sand and ignore what saw us relegated (mainly because I would not like to see those mistakes repeated!!!). They may well face the same economic constraints, but that does not mean they have to make the same stupid mistakes that we made, mistakes which have cost us millions and mistakes which look as if they are being repeated again, ultimately seeing us hurtle towards oblivion. In your world it would appear that you have no control over your own destiny and you just have to accept your fate. IMHO, that's defeatist and negative. We may not have a divine right to dine at the top table, but that certainly doesn't mean we just accept our fate down here and don't give it our best shot at getting back up there. Then again when we were there last time you reckon we were merely a poor team:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Actually going through those clubs, although many have fallen on hard times for a multitude of differing reasons, how many have gone through shedloads of managers in the same way we have (and also had the costs of change that this thread alluded to)???? Sheff Weds (Would certainly say mismanaged with all the costs of those foreign premiership stars carbone etc, plus they've gone through about 8 managers in 10 years) Derby County (From Pickering to Sleighthome & others fcugking up, along with 7 managers in the last ten years, you woould argue they've been mismanaged). Leicester (the last club to use the administration option to their benefit and not be penalised has certainly gone through managers. Not overly sure of mismanagement prior to going in to Administration, but Milan has installd the revolving managerial door). Bradford (Geoffrey Richmond and his overspending wrecked the club) Portsmouth (enough said) Spurs (6 managers in 10 years, but not sure they've been mismanaged to the same extent as we have, although you could argue they have underperformed) Newcastle (once again not really sure of mismanaged as from Hall through to Shepherd they've raised the cash, 6 managers in 10 years) Sunderland (3 managers in ten years & not sure of massive mismanagement, just suffering from falling out of top flight). We've had 10 managers over the last ten years and a few boardroom reshuffles and I'm bored now!!!!!!!!!!

A drop kick (I think from the Archers, scoring at the Milton), whilst playing for Leicester in 1967. You're right in that Forsyth was in goal. I'm sure I've seen it on the TV somewhere (will go and have a look around).

There's a few Scottish teams in there!!!!!! But my mistake with the technical vocabulary, I meant listed PLC's of which there are a handful. This is a good article and I like the bit that says : From Arsenal to Millwall, all of the remaining quoted football clubs are private companies in all but name, as they are controlled by a single owner or group of investors. Could certainly apply to us, with a cabal in control of 42%, which whilst not representing an overall majority, it means that this group is able to run the Club as they see fit. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/marketreport/2787675/Listed-football-clubs-score-own-goals.html

But the misguided actions of Lowe and Wilde are the things that have directly, and indirectly, brought this Club down. Their actions have had a disastrous affect on attendances. You can shout, pontificate and moan as much as you want, but that won't make the fans return. They have to be lured back by either winning matches or by believing in those in charge. Neither is happening at the moment. It is the actions of those in charge (both direct and indirect) that has driven the fans away. Let's be clear about that fact.

There was no way that we could have afforded to keep all three of those, but how about at least one of them?????

There's no doubt that that turnover of managers is probably going to ****k you over in the long term and Mandaric is certainly not a shining example of what I would call a good Chairman (although he isn't shy of putting his hand in his pocket!!!). That said, just because Mandaric is mental doesn't mean therefore that Lowe is fantastic. In fact, his record of managerial cokc ups (particularly in that fateful relegation season) ****uked us over and his choice of the "revolutionary coaching set up" isn't looking too clever either.

To be fair most Official Sites (including ours in the past) are normally fairly optimistic and are not exactly impartial, but I would also say that since the summer ours has gone into overdrve and taken optimism, spin and bullshyt to a new level. Combined with the sychophantic reporting of the Daily Echo you have to wonder just how thick they think the average fan is. If one of it's duties is to reach out and embrace the fanbase, then I have to say I personally feel it is failing dismally.

LMFAO. There is an even worse case on here and that's the poster who keeps moaning about the atmosphere at the ground and the lack of support in voice and numbers, yet he doesn't actually attend matches himself. Soemtimes you couldn't make it up LOL.

Interesting looking at those appearances stats and didn't realise Niemi played so few and Shilton so many. 106 games in 3 1/2 seasons reflects those injury troubles that Niemi struggled with at times, compared to Shilt's 242 games in 5 seasons which must have been almost ever present. Niemi would have got my vote had he not been up against someone of Shilton's stature.

Who wrote that???? The RSPCA or the NSPCC would have a field day. That sounds like a recipe for disaster or a YTS at Longleat getting the keys mixed up.

I think you will find they're not. About a handful in the English Leagues are PLC's

I'm all up for being as viable as is possible in this league, I'm all up for cutbacks in non essential areas and I'm all up for some difficult decisions. But any fool can just go in and cut out the biggest costs. What makes an inspirational, clever and respected leader is someone who makes the cuts that don't damage the core business, fights tooth and nail to keep hold of the essential revenue drivers and keeps the assets that will ensure customers still come through the doors. Otherwise you will just go on and on in one downward spiral of a death by a thousand cuts. Supporters need to believe there is something in it for them, but Lowe and Wilde have failed to get that key message across, or if they have tried, very few have bought in to it.

Aha, the old dull accountant's way of looking at business. How about being inspirational and growing your revenues, producing a product that people will buy, tempt them in to parting with their money with a promise that they will get value for money and then deliver on that promise. Grow some spirit, enegender a good relationship with the community, employ people with empathy towards the fan base, let's creat a spirit where we are all behind the cause. Nah, let's just say we've only got 9,000 mugs this season, let's cut to the bone, make do with what we've got, beg steal and borrow elsewhere and if results are rubbish and fans stay away, we'll just cut again, and if that diminishes the product and results are rubbish and fans stay away, then we'll just cut again, and if that diminished the product and results suffer and fans stay away, then we'll just cut again. The problem is that I fear your way of thinking and mindset is what is driving this Club at the moment. There is no inspirational leadership at the Club, no community spirit and no one who we can rally behind.

I'm getting confused now;) So are only those who attend matches allowed to moan, or is no one allowed to moan???? Are there degrees of moaning allowed (which works on a sliding scale based on attendance and monetary contributions - is it a linear relationship or an exponential one?)???? We really do need to be told as I don't want to upset the "uber fan" police on here or at SMS. I'm sure there are loads of us wanting to know just what type of fan we are and what are moaning rights are. How about a little excel spreadsheet that we can type our attendance and financial contributions in to that will then work out our moaning quotient. How about that for you next little ditty on the main page of this site (much more interesting that your Solent City Rangers scribble or your Gridiron revelations :smt015)

Probably a wrong turn of phrase there. More a kind of "agreed to work together through gritted teeth" sort of relationship!!!!! Not sure it would bring in enough wonga to do anything other than keep the wolves fromt he door for short while. Of course it might be better than nothing, but all you would really be doing would be to buy another 6 months to a year. Something might happen during that year to get us up the table, but it's not guaranteed and you would have to be able to afford to lose that money!!!! Additionally, who else would underwrite such a rights issue/placing apart from Crouch???? On the back of a fag packet If we wanted to raise 3million at the current share price, he could proably underwrite 2/3rds of it and not breach 29.99%, but who would take up the other 1 million??????

I haven't got a season ticket, nor do I go to away matches. Do I lose 10% of the right to moan offset because of the non ST and a further 50% because of the non away attendance???? And what's the offset loss because I don't buy anything from the Megastore????? We do need to know how to be the best fans GM, please tell us as I'm sure we all want to be uber fans [sic] just like you. Please, please, do tell.

You don't annoy me fella, and there's no need for spell checker there!!!!!!! The Runnymede minutes showed how intransigent all three of them were and how although there was some common ground, dislike of Executives, dislike of SISU offer etc, there was more thann an element of mistrust in the background. Obviously two of them ironed out their differences, but not sure you would be able to get the three of them o work together. Anything is possible, but I just reckon there is too much history between them all and a different take on the way forward. I think the manager would be a classic case in point, and although I have no inside track to any of the big three, I reckon that Lowe thinks the revolutionary coaching set up is the way forward, I reckon Crouch would be more minded of a Pearson style set up, whilst Wilde would just agree with whoever shouted the loudest or offered him the Chairman's seat. I'm not sure what the solution is (maybe it's some independent and unrelated set up), but I also know the current set up is not working.

So, do I take it that we should all just ignore everything off the field, not post or say anything about those in charge and just get down to SMS and support the team???? If so, I'm sure there used to be a poster on here called Guided Missile who would always have a pop at McMenemy, Wilde, Crouch, even Lowe about the interest rates recently etc etc etc. I'm sure recently he even started a thread about who to blame for non promotion. Always an antagonistic source of lowering morale LOL. Maybe this post should be forwarded to him to read:rolleyes::rolleyes:

What witty little ditty can you two come up with that I can call Lowe????? Anything to humour me when I remember the fact he has personally drawn a fair few million from the Club (and that's personally drawn, as opposed to the tens of millions his poor decisions cost the Club)????? Maybe something to honour his share of the 600 grand pay off in 2006 (a pay off that was effectively because he got the elbow). Lovely jubbly. Come on, with the wit of you two combined it shouldn't be that difficult.

The return of Lowe, the introduction of a revolutionary coaching set up and the failure to win at home has brought with it a wave of apathy that has swamped the Club. People can't even be ar55ed to go anymore, so the thought that they would then come and protest instead is not that logical. It has just got to a stage where many thousands have clearly giving up and I worry that even a modicum of success will not mean they will all come back. Get out of the habit, lose the passion and it might be hard to reignite. We can argue all we like about whether it is 100's or 1000's who are staying away from Lowe, but the cold, hard facts of the matter is that attendances are massively down and with every match we edge closer to administration. How I wish there were more uber fans out there like you or I [sic] who would go week in, week out whatever the results, but I also wish for other fantasies that aren't going to happen. We need to get real, accept our hard core is somehwere around 12,000 -13,000, and look at ways at seeing if there is any way of getting those missing punters back through the door. We can slag the stayways all we like, but for many they come for reasons other than blind loyalty. For them the Club has to deliver something and to date it has been wanting. 13,000 of us deliver our side of the bargain regularly, perhaps the Club should start to deliver something. The failings at the Club have very little to do with the grass roots supporters (stayaways or not) and so much to do with those who have the power to change things, be they players, manager or directors.

I think people are very tolerant with this young lad, and very tolerant in general to all the youngsters whoare trying their best. If there is any criticism regards Gobern, it's aimed more at Jan for throowing him at the deep end. That's not the young lads fault.

Did the Stock Exchange boys give you a bell when you were peddling your bullshiy7t propaganda that the Change of Control clause would be invoked and we would have to replay the 20million+ outstanding on the loan notes, in the run up to the EGM??? I'll await their call:rolleyes::rolleyes: If the FSA logged on to this board, then judging by your little whinge our crowds would go below 10,000 as most on here would be banged up. Get over yourself.

Come on, don't be so naive. Whoever came in would have had to work within our financial constraints, but there is a massive degree of latitude to what another manager could have done. We've brought in something like 11 or 12 players, so there must have been some latitude in there somewhere. After that a different manager could employ different tactics, different formations and have different priorities. To suggest we were forced down this path and there were no alternatives, no other ways of building a team and no other way of getting the team to play is ridiulous. In fact, the path we have gone down was one that was specifically chosen as a way of getting us out of the mess we find ourselves in. The fact that, to date, it hasn't paid off is a seperate argument, but it was a conscious decision to follow this strategy. Pearson was a dead man walking as soon as Lowe and Wilde got through the door. Those in the SOS group were aware of this months before Lowe and Wilde even called an EGM. Pearson was happy to work under the new regime and when he went off on holiday to Malta he actually thought he had the job. Lowe and Wilde didn't want him, so they activated a release clause, which, however you dress it up, is getting the elbow. JP (and othose who appointed him) must take a large share of responsibility for our poor perfromances. And you highlight perhaps one of the fundamental problems with those running our Club at the moment i.e. the problem of looking beyond the action of purely cutting costs. It is totally impossible to prove, but John's wages must be something like 1,000 on the gate, and you have to wonder what our gates would be like had he still been here, scoring and winning us some games???? Of course releasing him saved us money, but is it a false economy if the team suffers as a result of his departure and attendances suffer as well???? Methinks that some in SMS (wink, wink) thought that David McGoldrick was a ready made replacement. And that could have been all that was needed. They may well have had to make similar decisions about cost cutting, but who was to go, who was to come in and perhaps more importantly, how we were going to play,were all up for grabs (of course there are no guarantees it would hav panned out better, but there is/was an alternative). The problem is that as honourable as it is is to have a long term plan, you also have to balance it with the short term, because failure this season will render any long term plan obsolete. I think you seriously underestimate the consequences of relegation to Division 3. I think it would almost definitely result in us going into Adminsitration and the Club being turned over even more savagely than when we were relegated from the top flight. We also heard a similar line last time around in that we were told at least we would win more games in this division!!!! Hasn't really gone to plan (wth the exception of the play off season). I'm not sure about another excuse to batter Lowe, because even if some people think relegation last time was nothing to do with him, having it happen to you twice in the space of a few years might be slightly harder to brush aside. I'm not sure I agree. I'm not advocating it (just yet), but sometimes a change of manager can bring about a change in direction. Some other things would need to change as well, but I maintain our cards haven't been fully dealt yet and there is still much within our own power that we can do to dictate how the remainder of the season pans out.

How can you comment on the negativity at the games if you haven't been going to the games????? That's as bad as Sad Old Git complaining about fans staying away when he's posting at 3:05pm every Saturday. FYI, I think you'll find the atmosphere and support has been really good this season from those who have attended the matches and despite only one win, I can't remember too much negativity. I'm sure many are unsure/wary/ or against the current experiment, but that hasn't transformed itself into negativity at the matches, which is a tribute to those who are still going. (LMFAO at the thought that we're more negative than oter sets of fans!!! There's nothing between us all, football fans are the same up and down the country:rolleyes::rolleyes:).