um pahars

4 points from two games isn't disastrous and with Charlton losing and no one below us making ground, it hasn't been a bad night (although Watford and Charlton were both away from home). It was business as usual at St Mary's. We probably had most of the posession, but nothing much in the way of clear cut chances. McGoldrick rounding the keeper was probably our only clear cut chance, and straight after that they had a clear header which was their only real chance. Think we once again played too pretty at times and never used the width of the pitch to our advantage. The positive was that under Perry, our defence looked much better. First to moan at the ref, so have to say D'Urso and the linesmen were very good tonight (even providing us with a cheer as the Kingsland lino went over on his ar55e). Team Scores Davis - 6 - Nothing really to do, but distribution dodgy at times. James - 7 - Much better and looked good going forward Cork - 7 - Very composed and steady. Perry - 8.5 - Solid, confident and a tower of strength Skacel - 7 - Got stuck in, used his head and pretty sound Lallana - 8 - The guy is class, very skilful and elusive. Quiet after being kicked into the Itchen towards the end!!!!! Surman - 7 - Some very neat passages of play, but just expect more form him Scheiderlin - 6 - Didn't do enough for me, fairly anonymous Wright-Phillips - 7 - Tried hard and got involved McGoldrick - 6 - Just don't rate him, sorry. Robertson - 6 - Didn't do much for me, never looked like scoring (or getting in a scoring position). Subs: Paterson - 6 - Got half an hour, but no real improvement on Robertson Gasmi - 5 - Pretty anonymous and not on long

Being honest, the Jeff Winter lookalike didn't really do much, so hard to judge one way or the other. He probably only got about 10 minutes and not sure if he touched the ball. He's not very tall, that I can tell you.

Well it's a good job that those in charge for the last two years kept the Academy as one of their priorities allowing this talent to flourish and blossom. I can remember many on here (yourself included) moaning about they had left the academy go to rack and ruin. It would appear, that with many breaking into the first team and others being lined up, that the last few years of the Academy has been a real success.

A rather passionate, but spot on post. What this Club is calling out for is a leader who can engender the support of the fans, someone who can build bridges and someone who can pull us all together. This was a great opportunity to draw a line under the past and move forward. For me, it was less about the numbers and instead how they were framed. And once again, Lowe's pig headedness, his arrogance and his lack of understanding of the bigger picture shone through in almost every line. Just what are Wilde, Cowen and Jones doing when Lowe goes off on one???? Surely one of them should have pulled him to one side and said "Are you really sure you want to say all this? Are you sure it's absolutely necessary?" Just as that Radio Solent interview proved when he first came back on the scene, he really hasn't changed and more worryingly, he hasn't learnt from his previous mistakes.

LOL. If anything, my reply was more to do with the waffle, spin and teflon approach surrounding the accounts, rather than the numbers themselves. Lowe doesn't say much anymore, but when he does, there's no doubt that he hasn't changed one iota. What did you think of some of the claims in there??? Do you think that that footballing legend Chris Iwelumo is a worthy candidate to judge our footballing and financial recovery LOL??? If it's only gone wrong in the last two years, how do you think that plays with our football club chairman???

Oi!!!!!!!!!!!! I've copyrighted that one thank you very much.

Fair enough, but hve to say the reason you had an off day was more down to the fact that we had an on day. We never let you play well, as opposed to you not playing well.

The Interims are normally out soon into the new year, so it won't be long to wait, but I will happily wager that our wage bill is not 2.5million for the six month period. It's definitely come down, but no way by 7million on an annual basis. Fancy a wager (I may need to recoup my losses when Pulis hits 20 odd appearances!!!).

But as lovely as interest payments are, if you continue to increase the principle and are unable to bring it down, there will inevitably be a crunch time.

A few questions!!!!!!!! You could drive a coach and horses through some of the stuff attributed to Lowe in there!!!!!!!!! As I have said elsewhere, any notion that the Club was in a strong position back in 2006 is rather suspect at the very least. It wasn't long before that he "didn't know where the next penny was coming from", and the cashflow showed millions flying out the door. I would rather Wilde was asked for his thoughts on Lowe's comments. LOL. I loved this one. The equivalent comparison was that our overdraft was 4.4 million, so why the need to compare apples with pears??? If anything, it shows that even under Lowe this summer our overdraft went up by 2m LOL. You might also want to ask him to justify the 3.4m he has quoted as being on deposit when he left. The question you should ask is what was our net cash position, as we also had an overdraft when he left, along with deposit accounts. The net cash figure including the treasury Deposit back then was 2.8m Without a strong mandate you would have thought Lowe would have been doing all he can to build bridges, win people round and engender a spirit of unity. Instead, once again he launches in to the Lunatic Fringe. LOL. A very good question. I saw this as further player sales, but an explanation would be useful. I had to laugh when the legendary Chris Iwelumo (no disrespect Mr Iwelumo) is wheeled out as a referee to our pioneering ways. There were other little dittys in there such as he and his cabal stepped down in the interests of unity!!!! Yeah right they did. They held on to the bitter end, as was their right, but let's not suggest they went in the spirit of unity. LOL. Also that many of these youngsters had been overlooked. Overlooked by whom??? George Burley??? Appointed by whom???? And good to see we are playing an attacking brand of Dutch football:rolleyes::rolleyes: I would also ask Michael Wilde if he is happy with the foreword to the accounts that Lowe signed off???? If so, he certainly sees things differently from when I spoke to him last!!!!!

Is Administration inevitable????? Not sure one way or the other. On one hand, last year we had an Operating Loss of just under 13million (15 million if you include interest) and an Operating Cash Outflow of 15 million. We may have made savings, but I struggle to see how we can turn around that much of a deficit (regardless of whatever cutbacks we make). Even player sales will surely take some going to bring that back into line (and at what point do we run out of family silver?). So on that basis, I can only see as accumulating even more losses, offset by whatever one off sales we can muster. The other side of the coin is that I'm still struggling to understand what Barclay's and Norwich Union's position is. They are the masters of our destiny and I'm unsure of just how they benefit if they pull the plug (or stop funding us and therefore someone else pulls the plug). Do they accept their losses to date and administration just means they don't lose any more money or do they stick with us in a hope something can turn us around (i.e. promotion)????

I would be amazed if our wage bill has dropped from 12million to 5million. Even if it had, we would also need to lose another 5million+ from elsewhere to turn a profit on normal operations (7million if you include our interest costs!!!!!!).

But the football board comprises of Lowe, Cowen, Wilde and Jones. Cowen and Wilde aren't line manages in any sense of the term, they are Non Execitives (who may do a bit of work at SMS or from home), but they are not involved in the chain of command. Ultimately Lowe has his hand on the tiller and Jan reports to him. He should certainly let Jan manage and not interfere in any day to day footballing issues, but he really should be there to be able to judge his direct reports progress.

hints!!!!!! It does more than hints!!!!!! It blames everyone else, conveniently forgetting the reason why Plan B would have had to be implemented, which would be as a direct result of relegation which has turned this Club's finances upside down. To suggest that all the current turmoil is down to Hone and co's actions last summer shows Lowe to have a tenuous grip on reality.

Not sure I agree Ron. Lowe's main role is as CEO and in that respect he ultimately oversees all footballing matters (BTW I mean he should oversee them, not partake in all of them!!!!!). Ultimately Jan and his team report to him, so surely he needs to keep abreast of how things are panning out. It was something I was critical of regards Hone, in that I thought he should have attended all away games to oversee Burley, so think I am being consistent here. I see his presence at matches more from an operational point of view, than as opposed to being there in an ambassadorial role.

When the play offs first came on the scene didn't they use to involve 3rd to 5th from one divsion and a team one place above relegation from the division above (or am I just imagining it????????????)??? COs we might get involved that way!!!

Rasiak was one of Lowe's last acts who was signed on mega wonga and a 4 year deal, but we also had players on big wages hanging over from our Premiership days (e.g. Claus still had two years to run). Skacel was one of Wilde's/Crouch's buys, whilst Saganowski was under Hone.

And I said so the moment it was obvious that Hone and co weren't implementing Plan B last summer. They should have started the cutbacks back then.

Haven't had long to look at the words that accompany the accounts, but like you I was drawn to the fact that "the Board remain in negotiations with Barclays Bank, who are seeking a progressive reduction in their position, and the loan note holder". I'll have to look what was said in the interims (and last years accounts), but this certainly doesn't suggest that we have come to an agreement with either, but instead we are still in negotiations!!!! As for the Going Concern note, it's been there a while (and the accounts have never been qualified), but I think there are a few more more strings attached this time around as you would expect as our financial position deteriorates (e.g the loan note holder is mentioned in here for the first time for these accounts).

The cost of the transfer is amortised over the length of the players contract and shown as "Amortisation of players’ registrations" in the P & L. HTH

12.5 million loss on normal operations (i.e. all normal income less all normal costs & not tainted by player sales/amortisation). This sort of increases to 14.4 million once you factor in the ongoing interest costs.

LOL. I'll sure try. Below is a piece (I think from the Echo or matbe The Guardian outlining the fact that there was no warchest when Wilde/Crouch/Hone took over from Lowe in summer 2006). Here was Hone said about the warchest, and how the signings of the summer after Lowe were funded (the bits between Hone's quotes are the reporters bit). "What was clear pretty quickly after coming into the company was that there was no reserves, what some might call a warchest," said Hone. "Money that had been brought in by player trading was just used to keep the company afloat." Saints' yearly accounts released last week showed a loss of £3.3m in the 13 months ending June 30, 2006 - ironically, the day former chairman Rupert Lowe quit. During that period, Saints sold Peter Crouch, Theo Walcott, Antti Niemi, Nigel Quashie and Kevin Phillips for around £14m. "If not for selling players, the losses would be absolutely horrendous," Hone added. So without any warchest', how have Saints paid for their manager's close season rebuilding. "It's in staged payments for the players, but it's been done on debt by and large," Hone revealed

Before you thump the keyboard, go and have a good think about how things transpired in the second half of that season, how easy it was to release players midway through a season and who we still had on the payroll. With regards the first one, although you are quick to name Pearce and Pericard, you are somewhat slower to remember Wright, Lucketti and others who were brought in to effectively save our season. Whilst they obviously impacted on our wage bill, the cost of not bringing them in was probably a million times worse. Secondly, moving players halfway through a season is a tough ask. Lowe and Wilde have found it hard to sell players in the longer summer window so by comparison that month window is tough to trade in. Additionally, when you trade in the summer you have the flexibility of remoulding a team in pre season, whereas games are fast and furious in January. And lastly, it is also worth remembering that many players contracts expire in the summer (e.g. Lundekvam and many others) and so the more obvios time to cut back is in those summer months. When Lowe released the trading statement a while back it was clear that wages had remained at similar levels for the Hone period through the Crouch period, with the reasons above being the rationale. Not everything Crouch did was good, and like you I think he dithered post Burley, but his hands were somewhat tied by the previous actions of the Executives and others before that (himself included of course).

Because the Club that started out that 2006/7 season was one that Lowe left and was still haemoraghing cash. Those that took over stemmed the flow somewhat in their first year, bu then failed in their second year. Here is something I posted a while back when some idiot was claiming there was a kitty left behind. It sort of stopped that claim in its tracks!!!!!!! Here was Hone said about the warchest, and how the signings of the summer after Lowe were funded. "What was clear pretty quickly after coming into the company was that there was no reserves, what some might call a warchest," said Hone. "Money that had been brought in by player trading was just used to keep the company afloat." Saints' yearly accounts released last week showed a loss of £3.3m in the 13 months ending June 30, 2006 - ironically, the day former chairman Rupert Lowe quit. During that period, Saints sold Peter Crouch, Theo Walcott, Antti Niemi, Nigel Quashie and Kevin Phillips for around £14m. "If not for selling players, the losses would be absolutely horrendous," Hone added. So without any warchest', how have Saints paid for their manager's close season rebuilding. "It's in staged payments for the players, but it's been done on debt by and large," Hone revealed

The balance of power has effectively been: Dec 96 to Jun 06 - Lowe and his cabal calling the shots. Jul06 to Feb 07 - A balance of Wilde, Crouch, Hone & others where no one held a balance of power Feb 07 to Dec 07 - Hone/Dulieu in control of the PLC board. Jan 08 to May 08 - Crouch in control (through Hoos). If you think that Lowe left this Club in a healthy state with a bank balance that would tide us over, then you have been completely take in by the PR spin. In the first season down, we lost 9 million pounds out the door on normal trading (that's even after a 7 million parachute subsidy which is therefoe a 16m disparity between ongoing income and ongoing costs). He left a company haemoraghing cash, "didn't know where the next penny was coming from" and an operation that needed player sales to balance the books. As others have mentioned on this thread, I have little sympathy for the route taken by Hone and co in their last 6 months, when instead of implementing Plan B they instead spent a few million more. And there have been other mistakes in the last two years which have contributed to the mess we now find ourselves in. But for Lowe to once again claim this is someone elses mess is somewhat passing the blame. Our troubles all stem from relegation frm the top flight when millions were wiped from the top line, leaving a Club with an infrastructure and cost base that was always going to struggle in this division (Wilde himself admits to thinking that we can't wash our face in this division). Before Lowe holds everyone else to account, methinks their should be some perspective about where our problems come from. They must take their share of the blame for the actions in recent years (particularly the Executives at the start of last season when they failed to implement Plan B). And with that relegation came the reasons for why we find ourselves where we are now. Income dropped from around 50 million to about 1/3 of that. It is that massive drop that has resulted in the total restructuring of this Club. Other decisions haven't helped (and they have indeed hindered), but when put in perspective, it was relegation that caused the problems we now face. To end, Lowe did not leave a robust Club with a large cash reserve by any stretch of the imagination.