bridge too far

I must have asked you three or four times yesterday for your alternative solution. The only one you came up with was one that was already in train. Pots & kettles, mate. Pots & kettles.

I think that's the case, too RS. In fact, I already pointed that out to Nick when asking him for HIS solution to the problem. He just came back with the idea again. I don't think he realises that this IS happening. So I'm still waiting for his alternatives - the ones that haven't already been undertaken. I was interested to read today that the Conservatives are distancing themselves from this MEP. He's an embarrassment to them, apparently.

In spite of people like us paying our fair share, the real obstacle to improving public services even further is the non-payment of taxes by those bastions of capitalism, the banks and large corporations. They avoid paying their fair shares by putting their money into secretive and / or off-shore banks. Thankfully, governments around the world are starting to address this issue. The Guardian has recently exposed many of these companies. As far as the NHS is concerned, now, for the first time, in every part of the country, nobody has to wait more than 18 weeks for treatment after being referred by their GP, unless they choose to wait longer or there is a good medical reason. Most people wait less than 8 weeks. These are the shortest waiting times since records began.

And his wife WAS American - she died in 2000.

If one is a Muslim then one is a believer in Islam. That is a religion, not a race.

Most of which are Conservative controlled. Here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/localelections08

But other countries seem to manage OK. I can't recall too many dictatorships being established recently in the western world.

How on earth do you get to that conclusion? I'm not making any claims about comparitive wages. I'd quite simply read on a number of message boards that Tesco pays very low wages to its cashiers when compared to other supermarkets and I passed that intelligence on. As I haven't ever been to Aldi / Lidl, I can't possibly comment on how they operate, can I . But I'm not prepared to spend hard earned dosh driving a round trip of 20 miles to check it out. It would probably cost me more than I might save. I'd rather support my local shops, quite frankly.

But what should be done NOW, Nick? What should this country, and all the other western democracies, do NOW to make things better? You mention toxic debt. The government has already addressed this problem by underwriting toxic debt so that the banks, supposedly, will start lending again. Where will this money for banks to lend come from, exactly? Is there a pile of it hidden somewhere? If the man in the street isn't earning money > spending money > adding to some company's profits somewhere > how are the banks going to get money to lend out? It is a vicious circle. Where anyone jumps into it is a matter of conjecture. The more important point is that the circle must keep turning somehow - not put into reverse as some would advocate. So - what should be done NOW, Nick?

The nearest one to me is about 10 miles away and the next nearest is 20 miles away. I don't think I'll bother The great thing about my town is that there is a good selection of supermarkets actually in the town itself. So it's quite easy to do local (meat, bread and veg) shopping and then visit the supermarket of choice, without having to move the car.

I've never been to either of these supermarkets - there aren't any where I live so I don't know what 'yellow price cards' are. But surely a cashier, wherever s/he is employed, just scans items and takes money? (I don't mean that in a demeaning way BTW) Or is the working practice at the till very different at Aldi /Lidl to, say, Tesco or Sainsbury? Because I was talking about CASHIERS' wages, WSS.

Once the big boys drive all the local competition out of town, they will hike their prices, you see. I'm not just talking about butchers, greengrocers etc. I'm talking book shops, music stores, white goods stores.......

There have been cases in the past where a major supermarket (and I'm NOT saying it was Tesco, because I don't know which one it was) contracted with a lettuce grower to buy ALL his produce. If he agreed to the contract, he wouldn't be allowed to sell to anyone else. He geared up his production to satisfy this demand and then, when the contract was up for renewal, the supermarket offered him a revised price that was below the cost of production. He'd just planted the new produce. He had the awful dilemma of being ripped off and seriously out of pocket by continuing to supply the supermarket, or being left will millions of unsold lettuces on his hands. Some of these supermarkets are big bullies and they should be ashamed of their working practices, in my view.

Tony Benn is probably one of the most astute politicians of our time. If you ever had attended any of his lectures or read any of his published works / articles you would see that almost everything he has talked about in the past has come to fruition. Nick - you still haven't offered an alternative solution. We're where we are - what does YOUR future offer?

Oops :oops: my bad. Of course it is. 'Twas only Tuesday night that we watched it again, too.

Doesn't always work. My labrador was scared sh*tless of cats - even ours. She would occasionally approach them sideways (to protect her face from their claws I guess). She ran a mile when my friend brought her new kitten over to show us

I occasionally buy Pain au Chocolat (yep, girlie thing) from our local Co-op that doesn't stink of wee and hasn't been burned down. They are 79p each and they are scrummy. My daughter bought some Pain au Chocolat from Tesco the other day (yep, I need to do some more work on her). Four for £1.50. No contest you might think. Yes contest! The ones from Tesco were inedible - seriously! You get what you pay for I guess.

Do they still have the old hand-cranked tills at Aldi then? :shock:

Hey, I'm no lover of the finance industry but if banks and insurance companies go bust we're all up sh*t creek! There would be a domino effect and all the banks would go bust and we'd ALL be left with worthless houses, cars etc. etc. Pensions worth even less than they are now. Then we'd nearly all be out of work and it would be even worse than it was when there were over 3million unemployed before. So unemployment benefit payments would rocket, together with OAP pension credits, housing benefit etc. More poor people = poorer health so an increase in demand for health services. And that's just off the top of my head. Dreadful scenario...

Although the counter argument, Nick, is that by building schools, the government will prop up the construction labour market, prop up the supply side of the construction market etc. etc. As well as providing wages for people to spend, the government will also increase its tax take from the individual and from the companies. And, although my request for viable alternatives wasn't aimed at you, I'd be interested to know what YOU think the alternative plan would be. Never mind what should have happened in the past, what do YOU think should be done now? And why?

What's the alternative, then? Staple our (collective and individual) wallets shut, buy nothing, build nothing, export nothing? That would be far more expensive in the long run than borrowing out of recession. Think of the cost of unemployment, just for starters! So, to repeat myself, what's the alternative?

I do hope this isn't an euphemism :shock:

Way to go DLT - and we've had a rollickin' good argy bargy about supermarkets too. Bargain!

You mean, he strolled into Buck House and said 'Oh whilst I'm here your Maj, let's change the succession / royal marriage malarky, shall we?" I bet she dictates the discussions, not him. However, and forgive me for being serious on this thread , it has always been a principle of the Labour party that people should not be discriminated against because of sex / religion. So nothing new there, really.

My poor old cat, Trevor, (RIP) got confused when we suddenly taped up the catflap because a stray kept coming in and nicking his food. For about three years, he never realised that the catflap didn't work any more. However, his mother never used the catflap anyway, feeling it was beneath her to do so.