bridge too far

Of course, this relates to privately funded stairlift systems. Ones provided by Social Services will be significantly cheaper, because they have the purchasing power to obtain better deals (remember, they buy them for council nursing homes, offices, day centres etc. as well as residents). The companies would only offer them the competitive prices on new systems and therefore would not be interested in buy back. And, in any event, the administrative costs to Social Services of trying to sell a second hand system would far outweigh any price they might get. The one in my house was paid for by us - a second hand one was NO CHEAPER than a new one. We talked to the supplier about buying back when my mother no longer needed the chair or even giving it to local Social Services. They said we'd be unlikely to find a buyer. They offered to sell on the chair ONLY, once we no longer needed it. They wouldn't give us anything themselves and they wouldn't take the track. I'll let you know come the time we no longer need the chair. But given my experience in buying the thing in the first place, I'd be surprised if there were any takers, given the ADDITIONAL cost of installing a second-hand system.

Hey WSS why not try resorting to stereotypes? You know only too well what DSM and I were saying. Of course we need banks but, with them likely to have more state intervention, hopefully the bankers will get rewarded more realistically. They will, after all, become civil servants and answerable to all of us. They certainly haven't justified their inflated salaries and bonuses of late, have they. If you read Mao Cap's post properly (but you don't do that, do you - you just jerk a knee or two) you would understand that we're saying that there's more to life than just shed loads of money. However, I do happen to think that someone who cleans up a doubly incontinent old man with senile dementia deserves a HUGE amount of respect and a living wage as much, if not more, than for example a stock broker or commodity trader. It's very sad that carers have to do such work for about £12K a year. The balance needs adjusting. Hopefully the expose of the nasty side of capitalism will bring this about.

My colleague got an NHS manager sacked for doing just that, on construction contracts FYI. Yes, as in all walks of life, it does happen. Luckily there are people like us about to catch them out.

Err no. There are two manufacturers in this country - Acorn and Stannah. All the other 'suppliers' are, in fact, agents for these two companies. I got quotes from both manufacturers and a couple of agents actually and got the same tale from each of them. But hey - you carry on knocking me for trying to explain how it works, from first hand experience. I wouldn't dream of telling you how to conduct the hire of fruit machine business deals because I know nothing about it. But I DO know about stair-lifts, believe me.

I think most sensible people know what jobs are worthwhile. Nurse / doctor / teacher / carer for people with physical or mental disabilities. Or Bankers / stockbrokers / footballers. Tough call, that one. And by 'valued' I mean respected and admired, not necessarily rewarded financially, although I would argue that most of the first category should earn more than they do at this time. I would have no problem with the second category earning considerably less than they do now.

Probably the most articulate and concise post I've read for a long time. Let's hope that 'benign capitalism' takes hold and that worthwhile jobs are truly valued. And let's also hope that at last people can be valued for what they are and not what they've got. I also hope that 'society' in the sense of looking out for each other comes back into vogue.

No - I wasn't conned, as you put it. It was made quite clear to me that there is no difference in price from the supplier between a new chair and a second-hand chair. The difference is that the tracks cannot be re-used. It is the length of the rail and how it is fitted and finished that will differ from house to house. For example, we have wide stairs and it was easy to fit the rail to the stairs. Narrow stairs require the track to be fitted to a wall. Allowances have to be made for folding the chair and the track at the bottom of the track and that depends very much on available space in the hall. That will differ house to house. I used to be a procurement manager for an NHS Trust and I can therefore confidently say that Social Services (and the NHS although the NHS won't supply for private houses) have very competitive contracts with suppliers for the supply and fit of chairs and tracks and that it is entirely likely that new chairs / tracks work out cheaper than trying to get a supplier to supply and fit new track only and install a pre-owned chair. As I said before, criticise the suppliers for their restrictive practices, not the purchasers. And as far as cleaning is concerned, the NHS and Social Services will be very alert to the concerns of the public about transmittable disease. If you saw the process undertaken to clean hospital beds every time they're vacated, you'd understand a bit more perhaps. Many hospital / communtiy aquired infections (such as norovirus, MRSA, C difficile) can linger on surfaces for some time. The agencies would err on the side of caution, and understandably so. You'd be the first to moan if they didn't.

Today - work this morning, office lunch, home early Tues - work - probably at home though Weds - make trifle, clean house Thurs - spend the day with most of my children and my granddaughter. This will be the highlight of the week for me Fri - go to Adams Park to watch Wycombe Wanderers - treated ourselves to 'hospitality' - I'll report back on our likely opposition next season Have a good holiday, everyone x

But if Lowe bought the club up completely, and it did go tits up next season, sure he'd be the only one we direct our wrath at. However, if he THEN decided to sell, he'd trouser a nice tidy sum, wouldn't he? That would stick in my throat

The thing about administration that scares me to death is the thought of Lowe buying the club out of administration for a pittance. Going into administration WILL NOT guarantee that we see the back of Lowe - far from it. Remember LS's post last night about Lowe being up to something with Dennis Roach (allegedly)? This frightens me.

This Dennis Roach? http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2001/nov/04/newsstory.sport5 Nice

I couldn't agree more but I bet that's not how his Lordship would see it.

Apart from the cost of sacking Jan and appointing someone else, what right-minded manager would want to work for a chairman who doesn't allow him to do his job? Any self-respecting manager would want to be judged on his merits, tactics, transfer nous, not on actions that are thrust upon him. Jan's reputation won't be enhanced by his spell at SMS, will it. And most of the names mentioned so far are their own men and wouldn't take lightly to being bossed about in all areas of the job.

Hasn't he just opened a hotel in Jersey? He's probably busy waiting on tables there.

Nah not me. I was too busy eating at a Tapas bar that night.

No - I defend the principle of public service. That is entirely different.

Ah well - just believe the hype. I've got better things to do than to advise you from my first hand experience.

Believe me (and I know because this was a question I asked when I bought the system for my mother's use when she visited) they put up all sorts of obstacles if you try to buy a reconditioned one. Because my mother visited rarely, we thought it would be more cost-effective to buy a second-hand one. They told us that it would be more expensive to buy a second-hand chair / motor and a new track than to buy it all new! And they won't guarantee a second-hand chair and motor - this may well colour Social Services' thinking - H & S and all that. And contrary to their quote you show, they tell you that EVERY staircase is unique, even on a development of identical houses. They will NOT provide second-hand tracks. I'm prepared to GIVE our chair / motor to Social Services, but it will cost them more to get Acorn to only install a track and use our chair than it would to buy a new system. If you're going to have a pop at anyone, have a go at the manufacturers for their restrictive practices.

It tells me that the Labour Party has adopted concensus politics. And that the very people, who were OK with concensus politics and voted them in, are now unhappy. So probably next time we'll have a middle of the road Tory government, adopting concensus politics. I wonder what will happen then? Heaven help us, we'll have George 'Bullingdon' Osborne running the economy - he who is the representative of, and in total sympathy with, the working man and woman I don't think the Public Sector can 'do no wrong'. I spend my working life telling them where they ARE doing it wrong!

I don't Even if their original intention had been to keep her, I reckon whoever kidnapped her has now probably killed her because of all the publicity and searching. Such a sad, sad story.

Yes the chair can be re-used but it will still require someone to pay for a bespoke track, wouldn't it. I think you'll find that the track and the fitting of said track (and wiring)account for the greater part of the expenditure. An additional cost would be the decontamination of the chair. I'm not sure what alternative solution could have been offered to Nick's cousin. Expecting her husband to carry her up the stairs? Lord above, if the poor woman's terminally ill, a couple of grand to make her last few days comfortable and dignfied (and that of her husband) is hardly the end of the world, is it?

If there was a New Socialist movement, I would join like a shot. Perhaps you don't understand the difference between the Labour Party we have at the moment and socialism?

Look - if you can't be bothered to read what I actually wrote, what point is there in answering? For the hard of hearing - stair lift tracks are a bespoke manufacture because every staircase is different. They cannot therefore be safely resold. What part of that don't you understand? I think it's commendable that every effort was made to help this lady. I imagine they didn't foresee her death.

Who are these 'New Socialists' you talk of, BS?

It had the same effect on me too. If I were her parents, I'd never give up hope. I hope whoever has her, if she's still alive, is treating her kindly.