Nemi

He was worn out by the club, rather than the other way round. Personally, I think we destroyed him and he’s come out the other end a worse manager

Pep is successful because he’s far more pragmatic than any of these idiots we’ve hired. Yes, it’s possession based but he’s far more likely to mix it up when needed and he’s built one of the most physically strong teams in the league. Meanwhile, we get bullied trying to pursue something even Pep doesn’t. Martin and Selles are sort of managers who would bench Haaland because he doesn’t fit their style.

He looks like he’s dribbling a rugby ball

That was hilarious from Sulemana

Is it him praising how slow we’re playing? Absolute drivel, if so

Given SR’s track record of getting progressively worse managers, I wonder who they’ll magic up when Martin inevitably goes Maybe we’ll give Selles another go he has a failure to learn from

I don't really have a problem with the style but its the substance which is really lacking. We're shoehorning player into positions they're not comfortable in and inevitably they're fucking up. I don't have a problem with the full-backs inverting on occasion but we're forcing it everytime at the expense of our structure and when it goes wrong we're in massive trouble. We can't be in a situation again where our CM is receiving the ball at RB and then trying to pass it to our RB who is playing CM - it's crazy and of course we were going to give away a goal doing stuff like that and the ball is going between players who should be in the opposite position. If we're gonna play Smallbone he needs to be in the middle, where he does well - he's been shifted out to the right on the last few games and been poor. We can't keep playing A Armstrong at CM - I know he's personally not doing bad there but it's also fucking up the structure for our other midfielders. If he plays he needs to prove he can play well in his actual position up-top - otherwise he stays on the bench. We also need to start getting the ball into the box - there was an occasion last night where KWP played a one-two got to the byline and instead of getting the ball into the box he just turns around and goes backwards. Personally I would go to more of a 4-4-2 - the full-backs play more wide (but can come inside if necessary but not all the time), the CMs stick to the middle where they actually know what they're doing there and they can cover each other and the defence and either A Armstrong or Alcarez supports Adams up top. It's what Brighton do - they still play far tidier football than we do and they don't shift a tonne of goals doing it (in a higher league). The players play in the positions they know best and you would think that would start cutting out the mistakes without having to change the possession based style In reality, this 433 we're playing is leaving us as a 2-1-4-3 with our mids far too apart from each other, our full backs no-where and our 3 attackers just in a line (so when we do get up the field there's no penetration whatsoever.

I was really critical of him last season, but today it really goes to show how let down he was by poor coaching last season. It’s telling what a bit of coaching and a bit of identity can do for a player, and how the lack of it can really destroy one. Good to see him release the ball a lot quicker - combine that with his dribbling ability he’ll be a huge asset this season (if he stays). Hopefully he is also kept at RB now, such a big difference over playing him at LB.

Great! Only six midfielders in the whole league who are more risk averse and it’s hardly good company. Clearly he knows himself he’s not press resistant because he is so risk averse. Can’t lose the ball much I guess when you’re always stood on the backline passing sideways

I actually agree with him. KWP looks great because he is a direct dribbler and he does take people on. But that comes at the expense of a progressive pass or a quick cross. I remember last game JWP made a great run down the line to get into a great position to make a cross and all it needed was a simple pass. Instead KWP chose to take on another man and we ended up back at the keeper. One example yes, but for me the fact he dribbles so much actually holds up our passing game, too often he takes on one man too many and we end up going backwards instead of forwards. Saying that I do think he is a great player, but he needs to learn how to find a pass quicker.

The openness of that game suited him quite well. As soon as we come up against a team who sit back and hit on the counter he doesn’t have the ability to break them down and boy does it show in the number of times we’ve been a goal down at home and we’re just knocking along the backline. We’re really going to need a penetrative passer in that role next season because 3/4 of the league will be coming to St Mary’s to sit back and maybe nick a goal on the break.

I mean you have just ignored everything I've said and just invented something yourself. Like I said, I'm happy to give up on his ability to get goals and assists from free-kicks and get someone with a better control of the game - if we got both unbelievable, but as you have so smartly pointed out we are Southampton and getting both is extremely unlikely. I would just prefer someone who has better control in midfield but I'm very aware that means we'd in-turn lose JWP's stand out abilities.

I think it's fair to say he's somewhat like Marcos Alonso - unbelievable technique, has decent stats, gets a decent amount of goals and assists, but ultimately has some serious deficiencies for the position he plays. Stats show he has by far the best-end product of his team, and I won't ever criticise him for that but I will criticise his positioning, how quickly he passes the ball, how well he controls a game - the bits the stats can't measure. Some of the best midfielders in the league probably have worse stats than JWP, but they are able to dominate the game in a way Southampton haven't since the end of the 2020. I've been saying for years he can't control the midfield, he doesn't have the composure, he doesn't have the ability to get the ball on the half-turn, as mentioned he isn't press resistant, and his passing is penetrative enough. He was good yesterday, and he'll be a decent squad player for the right type of PL team ( I'm happy to come back to this, he definitely won't be pulling up any trees). But I'm happy that we will be cashing in on him now and hopefully we'll spend the funds wisely to improve the end product in positions higher up the pitch, and bring in someone who I'm sure will be nowhere near him in terms of free-kick ability and the goals and assists it gets, but someone who is better at the bits that really matter for a DM and hopefully we'll be able to regain a bit of control in the centre of the park, because I can't remember the last time we have been truly comfortable in a match.

Nail on the head. It’s all well and good he gets a goal or assist from a set-piece (though not enough from open play for me) but if he can’t handle what is such an essential part of the game now, these one per cent specials moment don’t make up for the other 99 per cent which are subpar for the PL. It really does become a drag on the team and unfortunately it has showed the past few seasons. Equally the other players have been a drag on him, I will admit, but I personally saw these problems even during the pandemic when we were doing well.

Gets to ward-prowse on the edge of the box and ten seconds later we’re back at McCarthey. Sums him up.

By no means the worst but I’m actually most disappointed with KWP given that he’s proven in previous seasons to have a bit of quality - yet hasn’t showed it once this season. The rest just don’t have the ability to be in the Prem and should have never been brought in by a serious PL team.

Thing is stats never tell the full story. He takes all the free-kicks, corners and penalties. That immediately inflates his stats. He also by far plays the most. I'm not saying these are bad things, but it hides his open-play deficiencies. Stats can't measure his positioning - my biggest complaint of him (how many of his passes come from the times he drops into the backline and we spend the next five minutes passing it across the sideways not going anywhere?). Stats don't measure composure on the ball - he panics under pressure and that reflects across our whole team in the number of points we've chucked away from winning positions. Stats don't measure how quickly he moves the ball - we all know how slow our build-up play is. Stats don't measure how a midfielder dictates the play - can you name me the last time we've truly controlled the game, even against the lower league teams (and I'm not talking about loads of possession but not going anywhere). Personally, I don't care how many goals our midfielder gets, I just want someone who can control the game, manage the tempo, play the ball quickly with one touch when needed, and for me JWP doesn't do that. It's definitely nowhere near all his fault, and with better players I'm sure he'd also be better. But the best midfielders raise the level of the whole team: on the rare occasion JWP hasn't played it really hasn't made much difference (though I know its a choice between terrible or awful). And there is a reason why no other teams (apart from Villa when they were chucking silly money at anyone) have really made a big push for to get him. He'll be a decent squad player for someone I'm sure - but given the importance of having a midfielder who can break the lines in today's game, I can't see him displacing many of the current PL starters.

Crazy that just because he had an ok game yesterday people now think he is good enough. He'll drop another clanger in a week or two and people will be after his head again. Maybe I've been watching a different team for the last few seasons, but given our regular 4/5 goal losses I think I've had enough of chaos in that time. There's plenty of CBs out there who can pass the ball forward and also have the ability to defend

If he didn’t do the same almost every game I’d buy it

100% He spent the last 15 minutes camped on the halfway line and the only time he bothered running up the pitch was to take a corner. If your midfielder doing that every game your gonna struggle no matter the league.

Newcastle game wasn’t a bad performance on the ball, but I don’t think I’ve been more embarrassed in my life at the state of the defending in that game.

Yet that doesn't address any of the concerns people have with him. You try and belittle people people's football knowledge yet you can't acknowledge his deficiencies in the other half of the game: he doesn't position himself properly as a CM, he can't control the pace of a game and he plays it too safe. In the last two seasons or so - and even longer really - can anyone honestly say, even when we've won a game, we've controlled it from start-to-finish? No. And the midfield need to take responsibility for that. Fine, he's fantastic technically as people keep pointing out and that does help us, but what people seem to not be able to see is he just doesn't have the intelligence, on the ball especially, that's needed in the Premier League. Even Bournemouth, after five minutes on Thursday, had sliced through our midfield with one-touch play at least two times: when is the last time Saint's have ever done that? Even against lower-league opposition it's the slow, sideways, risk-free play we've been getting for too long now. Yes that is also thanks to other players, but when he constantly stands in a line with the defenders when receiving the ball, of course we're going to play it sideways - because that's where he is stood! Sometimes he needs to make himself available in tighter positions, but he always goes looking for it in safe areas. When he does get the ball how often does he break the lines - not often. And he almost always plays at the same speed - our play is so predictable and one-paced and it's the midfield's job to be dictating that tempo! Midfielders need to know the times to play it quickly, the times it needs slowing down, but that isn't something Ward-Prowse is capable of - it's always the same pace, it's always the same amount of (low) risk. I don't think anyone is disagreeing that he isn't surrounded by dross - sure that doesn't help. But I also don't think he helps the other players either. Football's a team game and when the team is playing shit, everyone has to take responsibility equally - you can't just lay the blame on the other 10 players shoulder and let him get away with it. No one is singling him out, but as the mainstay in a team who have been playing consistently terrible football for the last three years or so, he also needs to take a level of responsibility. Especially if he's the captain of this team - it's literally his role to take on the extra responsibility! There's a reason why only Aston Villa were only interested in him and that's because despite managers acknowledging he has a world-class attribute, they also know he's lacking in other areas. Maybe he'll get picked-up if he's available for a fair price, but I don't see anywhere when he isn't a squad-rotation player. I think he gets away with it from fans because yes: every now and then he'll get a goal or score a free-kick - I accept he is very good in these one per cent of the game moments - the ones which are on the highlight reels. But we, as a team, him included, are appalling the other 99 per cent of the game. Personally, and this is I'm sure where opinion will differ, I would trade his one per cent moments of excellence for someone who is better in the other 99 per cent of the game. He's basically the opposite of Steven Davis but I know who I would rather have. People really aren't asking for much, they just want a captain who can get a grip of a game - it's really not too much to ask for a game we control once in a while, not once every few years. Again he's the captain! He's the one other players need to look up to, and when they see someone who is so risk-adverse, someone who panics under pressure, it's no surprise they also do the same. Ironically our best performance this year - and his - at Everton, he was played further up where he wasn't as involved in the build-up.

Sorry, when people praise him they always use general terms like he makes a difference but can never say how? He gets picked out because he has all the attributes of an excellent player, yet he he constantly plays within a comfort zone that hurts us. And his overly safe football sets the tone and is a big problem for a team who just knock it about sideways for the last 10 mins while chasing a goal. No one is saying he’s a completely useless football, he’s ok. But he’s nowhere near this game changer people make him out to be and his style of play is turgid, slow and boring. Yes, he great at free-kicks, he’ll (very occasionally) grab a goal in open play, but he slows down our general play and that cancels out what he brings us in set-pieces. Even Bournemouth has a midfield that moves the ball forward quickly, we need someone in midfield who can do that and Ward-Prowse just can’t. Maybe play him in a different role but we’ll need a better DM next year when Lavia leaves.

My biggest frustration is that we’ve had various opportunities to cash in on him and rebuild for some pretty generous money but refused to do it basically just to generate some positive PR. (Although I accept this would also require competent owners, which is where the blame truly lies) There’s plenty of midfielders out there who can move the ball with one touch (even Bournemouth were knocking it about with one touch with ease, Championships and League One teams were doing it against us - when do Saints ever do that) and unless we address this (along with many other things) we’ll continue to struggle no matter what league we’re in. And honestly if JWP accepted being a right-back (where he’s always played exceptional) it would be a lot better. He’d get the time on the ball he needs, he wouldn’t have to play with his back to goal as much, he could whip in crosses. But we can’t have him at DM if we’re serious about rebuilding

Sorry, I know the other players are terrible too, but JWP has been a big problem for years. He’s not capable of playing under pressure, he can’t play with one touch, everything is risk adverse. He only makes himself available for the ball when he knows he won’t get closed down. It’s no coincidence that for the past 5 years with him as a regular almost every win is a struggle by the end or so many points have been dropped: he can’t dictate the play. We need a midfielder who can grab the game by the scruff of the neck and take it under control: not someone who has to drop into the backline constantly to give himself more time, not someone who just boots it anywhere when put under pressure.