Holmes_and_Watson

@sadoldgit said “If you still feel that I am an Abbott apologist, there is no more I can say.” Well that saves me a bit of typing. Thanks. 😊 Sadly, only a bit… I think you’ve tied yourself up in knots over it, often within the same posts. You say “In no way was I defending Abbott or her hierarchy of racism, quite the opposite. Keir Starmer made the point that their is no hierarchy of racism and I agreed with him.” Yet, we got “I expected better from you Whelk. If you believe that there is no hierarchy when it comes to bigotry, prejudice and discrimination and that Diane Abbott was wrong.” And “She was trying to claim the word “racism” for black people” and when the obvious flaws in that were pointed out, ploughed on regardless. Not only that, but you perpetuate a hierarchy every time you come out with comments such as “How many people did you hear going in to bat for the Irish, travellers and redheads against those who called out her letter for its comments about Jewish people” That was on the back of, “Interesting that it has now distilled down to just an issue about Jewish people when she grouped together various other types who also face bigotry, discrimination and prejudice.” And “Maybe we need new campaigns for the others, travellers, Irish and ginger’s lives matter.” So bearing the above in mind… “Why can’t I or anybody else use the Holocaust to make a point, especially when we are discussing this subject” I did not say that it could not be discussed. I said that you had been “mentioning the Holocaust as part of arguments for the *second* day in a row, while defending someone who minimises Jewish people in her structure of racism.” Which as you “don’t believe these remarks are anti/Semitic,” you were. From your own quotes, you think the comments can’t be, because “Can you show me where her response displays hate or hostility towards Jewish people? Can you show me where she denied the Holocaust?” So despite other posters quickly pointing out the massive flaws in that reasoning, you come out with what comes across as ‘It’s only anti-semitic if it mentions something specific about the holocaust.’ Oh and the old deflection tactic of “…perhaps people are trying to find a way to make her text wholly discriminatory against one specific group of white people” which comes across ‘we’re not discriminatory, despite blatantly being discriminatory, it’s *them*’ Even after a day of research that told you “can be subjected to racism” or even “nothing definitive either way”, you’ve actually decided to ignore either position and conclude “I (and others) didn’t find the contents of this particular letter to be anti-Semitic.” and that any perceived anti-semitism is “it is *just* a reflection to the fallout from the letter.” (my emphasis). My “Spending much of a day trying to find out something!” line was intended to be combined with the next point of “But despite typing that, in the same paragraph..”. I wondered if that wasn’t clear enough myself after posting. Hopefully, the above clarifies. It’s a good thing to reach out and learn from as many sources as you can. It’s unfortunate that this didn’t apply to finding out about Abbott’s history, views and track record all of which have a bearing here, as you said “I was only dealing with that one particular letter.” Id’ like to think you at least strayed into reading the article it was in reply to. And unfortunate that study time didn’t apply to other posters waving giant warning flags, because “I don’t bother to read their posts.” You said “Deflection? … Why would I want to deflect from that?” Well in the following couple of paragraphs you said “the right wing media would use this for deflection themselves (which some did).” and “Abbott is an unfortunate sideshow, when the Home Secretary talks about “illegal immigrants.” So you could hardly get another couple of sentences in without trying it. 😊 This is likely why your position comes across as such a mess here. You seem to have a massive trigger to defend a political party/ leader. I can’t say “at all costs” but certainly here, very quickly, regardless of the evidence. Despite not agreeing with certain allegations against Abbott, and disagreeing with Starmer, who did conclude the allegations were correct, you praise his quick action. “She is rightly being dealt” and will be “be one less liability.” That’s at odds with you championing her brave “trying to redefine what we think we know racism to be” and I can’t think of many who would consider her to be “unfortunate.” I am aware that on forums, such positions to defend parties can be knee jerk in response to others. I’m also aware that you have a posting limit. Having a lot to say, an a few posts, can result in crossed wires and mixed messages. Because, and you may not like the source, @Turkish said "Interesting to note here that in soggy and aintclever we have the two of the biggest wokeys on the forum, desperate to jump on any perceived racism every opportunity they get both in their own way defending Abbots comments, denying any anti-semitism whist even the leader of their party has condemned them. Soggy has spent all day trying to prove Jews aren’t a race and aintclever has gone as far as accusing Starmer of lying." And that's is exactly how it comes across. I quote him because you've said that you don't read posts from others (not getting into the ignore thing). Hopefully some of the points discussed, by everyone, will give you pause for thought the next time something like this comes up.

You were right enough. It was that bad, if not worse, considering what was on the line.

Selles: Speculating too much... not good enough from all of us...JWP had a bad night, some chest issues... harder and harder...keep fighting...have to recover quick...show we can be more constant... Couldn't say anything remotely positive. And he'd have been slated for it, if he had. And that's how a lot of losses with these tactics looks. When you set up not to attack, dominate or push your opponents, defeats make us look as though we've never tried, had no energy, and miles away form getting goals.

The commentators did not shy away from pointing out what we've been seeing for such a long, long time. Yet the coaching staff will go away, and crunch the numbers on how we just managed to lose by such a narrow margin. Oh, if only we could be better defensively, they'll think. Utterly, utterly clueless. The worrying thing is that the people making the appointments might buy into this for next season. When they have tried something different, they gave us Nathan Jones. Their data cound't see what we were all seeing, when Ralph's tactic got found out. They thought it was just a matter of tightening that defence, and they could unleash their genius recruitment plan. Their research, despite months long, completely failed to spot all the evidence from Stoke that Jones couldn't handle players at a higher level. If anything, his failure endeared him to Ankerson. When failing to bring in another coach, they gave up the rest of our season to the guy who had been part of the coaching team of the previous failures. While he didn't come in with Jones, he was very involved in those Ralph's tactics that doomed us to those narrow 1-0 defeats as we're seeing now. Benali: "I feel sick. My stomach is churning." I don't blame him. It's clear that depsite all that money spent we have players who are not Premier League quality in that side. Those that are of that standard are shadows of their potential under coaches like this. There's no reason why we can't regroup and do well next season. We do have some of a team in there. A new manager is a must. It must be someone capacle of insisting on what needs cleared out, and that has to be followed. If that's the rest of the coaching staff, then fine. We're going to be losing players for all sorts of reasons. A clear plan, and not one based on Sports Republic spreadsheet, to squad management is a must. I don't trust those in charge to get it right, and can only hope they are involved in none of the decision making going forward. They should have someone strong enough to pont out the numerous flaws in their recruitment policies, if we're to get the key missing players that we will need to bring in to get out of the Championship. Benali mentioning that we've conceded goals. That's despite setting up to not concede goals. Defensively minded coach, Selles' work. Benali then says if you're conceding, you have to be scoring. Except that we've abandoned that coherently, due to that defensive set up. It's not the narrowness of the defeats, Sports Republic. It's that setting up to sneak a goal is doomed to failure with us. But we've never learned to change it. Inflexible and useless.

And that's why we're so much more tactically astute thatn they are. Our relegation was built on a solid foundation of tepid, narrow 1-0 defeats. 🙂

oh noes.... his toe is offside...

Yeeeeees!!!!!!!! Stu and Che!!!!!!!!

AMN is never going to able to delvier in a cross. Some good movement, but nothing. Then a passback from him, rather than the clear forward one. He's not been alone with that. No physical threat with no Big Paul either.

2 chances to get a ball in. Both utterly wasted. Mainly Lyanco. Just not capable of getting even basics right.

AMN never looked like getting the ball in there. Just so poor in everything.

"Saints showing more life." Only a little. Bournemouth have changed tactics, fairly happy that we look a bit clueless in the final third. Alcaraz may be getting a card for being gravitationally challenged.

The worry there is that we've been watching them that long, that we'd all miss. 🙂

Well, worse than normal SellesBall, is SellesBall without JWP on the park. changes being made. Adams putting a brave face on that injury that prevented him from starting (that culdn;t have been tactical surely. 🙂 ). Still time, still hope. But seen not a thing since very early see anything coming.

Disapointed in Sutton. His old school "This is a game Southampton have to win" fails to take into account the subtle tactical, counter attacking, nuances of SeelesBall. In his dinosaur world he'd have an attacking team, dictating play, getting the crowd onside, creating chances and retaining a place in the Premier League. I shall be sending a letter of complaint in. 🙂

And there we go. The massive, fatal flaw in SellesBall. Inviting pressure, in the hope that not only do all their team fall short of xG, but that the ball falls kindly enough for us to run up the park with it. And yet again, inviting pressure just means we concede. But we never , ever learn.

Now that's a brave substitution. I could only imagine a JWP penalty or freekick. Injury? Maybe he got told it would be SeelesBall for the second half and he finally snapped. "He's not feeling very well". So some idiot showed him the highlights reel for our season. That makes us all ill.

You mean as a manager, or just to take away to live with them, away from football? 🙂

That was SellesBall at work. Look to make sure we don't concede, although in doing so give them a fair number of shooting opportunities, and hope that they don;t come off from the positions we're trying to get them to shoot from. Make sure not to have strikers like Big Paul or Adams start to keep it that bit tighter. Try to catch them by surprise, even though our players look just as suprised to be pushing forward, resulting in disjointed attacks and no prolonged preiods of momentum. Same as usual, and much like RalphBall after it got found out, I'll be glad to see the back of it once the season is done. A miserable watch every time. Still, we've got a chance of getting that goal. Not quite sure how, but possible.

Shame none of all those notes said "front footed" or "aggressive". we'd look more of a threat. 🙂

It can't be that bad. Or am I just numb to it now? No, it can't be as bad as that was.

Lucky that Alcaraz pass was deflected. it was zooming past everyone.

Perraud off, but the bench have confirmed everyone's after game takeaway choices with notes. That's the level of detailed planning our coacing staff bring. 🙂

The Fish in the Box, just doesn;t have the same ring to it. 🙂 Perhaps the note that went on to him said "shape up or you've had dock."

Ball passed back for a deep cross into the box... passed sideways...passed back and straight out of play... This moment of despair was brought to you by Southampton FC. 🙂

It's why we're so much cleverer than all the other clubs in everything we do. 🙂