Frank's cousin

Of course it has to be give and take, and yes the better the realtionship, the more likely coverage will be favourable - but... we also need to get our priorities right. The last 3 years has been about focus - no distraction and whilst it works both ways, NC took a stance that the club would control the situation as it saw fit. Many folk had noses put out of joint including some in the media, BUT, its worked -and thats where we gain the advantage - Given the way we have played, the success we have had, the way teh club is run, the media would just make themselves look a right bunch of tits if they were constantly slagging us... people would just ignore it and say its sour grapes... the Echo, good relationship or not, could not exactly wright bad things when we just got promoted - the readship, advertisers etc would be put off - which is another point.... no matter how good a relationship you have the media, nothing will come ahead of sales figures - if there is a story that they know will sell more copies they will print it regardless of how good your relationship is... if it back fires because readers think its boll ox then thats the risk, but they always seem prepared to do that to get a scoop. Its really only when there is some shiedt to stir that a better relationship is necessary, not when things are good - the results, the performance and the way the cub is run speak for themselves.... is it any surprize that we have not had a any negative stories form the old guard of late? Even Lauries piece on teh BBC was 100% positive about the club... when times are good, no one is inteested in mud slinging stories.

...you dont do irony do you.... The whole point of my argument/opinion is that I am NOT obsessed with any era in football culture - I am happy for it evolve naturally as these things do - its the whole basis of your argument that fans should not be seen expressing themselves as they see fit, because it goes against some fictional code of what fan culture should be... something that it only ever was in reality for a short period in time between the 80s... and because you worry about what some other equally narrow minded fans think it should be and wrap it up as 'pride' to give intolerance and ignorance some kind of artificial respectability..

Difference is if I think he's a ****, I dont automatically assume all their fans are the same - and whats more what frickin difference does it really make? none... our view of anbother set of fans is more likley going to be based on innnate rivalries, history than what the feck some fecker is wearing..

What is this? Seeing who can keep this going the longest? - do you really need me to answer that? How about the fact that some take PRIDE in the club for being diverse, tolerant of all and happy to be community based and encourage kids, wierdos in costumes and whatever, rather than expecting all fans to confirm to a rigid terrace culture that became outdated around 1990? Swings and roundabouts. BUt given that one attitude is steeped in intolernace and the other in freedom of choice, think your value scale of what fans should be proud of needs adjusting IMHO.

True, its not normal, but if someone wanted to do it, that would be their choice. With football this is the whole point, the culture has shifted to include dressing up, flags, colours, balloons as 'Normal' and you dont like it. Fair enough, but to call for it to stopped, because you dont like it (because in part you worry about what other might think) is not only the attitude most grow out of when they get past teenage adolescence, but it goes against the preinciples of freedom of choice - simple really, not quite sure what you dont understand..

No, he was implying by taking 'pride' in terrace culture he had 'more' pride in the club than those that dont - when he has no idea how much or how little pride other fans take in their club just because they take pride in their club in diffrent ways... it was an assumption based on ignorance

If you had said 'find pride in different aspects of the club' - I would have said fair enough

No, i use it frequently, but am not 'hurt' or embarrassed by the inane attempts at cyber bullying by ignorant individuals who cant see that a few folk dressing up at football having 'fun' is perfectly within their rights and of no consquence. Dressing up is a trivial issue... a more important one is that of personal freedom and inclusivity. Would you be so against inclusivity and rights of all fans to attend and support as they wish if the 'groups' 'endangering' football culture were not families waving flags of folk dressed up, but an ethic minority? or Women? Same principle... and why some on here are quite happy to keep challenging those that think certain types of fan doing the thing their way should be excluded.

Because those ridiculing Southamption FC based on the lack of dress sense of one clown are obviously thick as shiedt if they judge a whole club on how individuals behave -- as such their 'opinion' means feck all. The fact that you worry about the opinions of some dim wits who think its some kind of ****ing contest and make sweeping judgements about a club because a few fans like to dress up and enjoy the game their way is what is being questioned. You are in effect saying you value the opinion of those feck wits who judge people just on how they might dress ... are you really being serious? They are ignorant feck wits, whose opinion should count for feck all.. Jeez, its such a trivial issue and if your ego cant stand a bit of leg puling, .... it must be a tad fragile for what I assume is an adult?

jeez.... FFS ... the fact that violence and intimidation has thankfully been removed (in most part) form our domestic game is WHY we see a cultural shift - more families, more kids, more 'fun' atmosphere - I would suggest it would have happened earlier had that atmosphere not evolved in the late 60s.... Its not 'going on about' boll ox and you know it, its merely making a valid point that football fan culture was ALWAYs going evolve once that atmosphere had been removed - enough fans felt dienfranchised during those days, who now go and bring the kids and grandkids for a good time. Some dont like it, fair enough, but what we see today is a result of shift away from that 'culture' in the 70s, 80s and early 90s.... you cant say that it has not played a significant part. Yes Westwood is a strange individual, but yes he is entitled to support his club (whilst it still exists) as he sees fit, but he should remember, if at SMS his Bell should be stuck well and truely up his arse.

'You cant stop a global tide' - fans adopt things they see into their own culture... I remember all those World Cups from 78 and the ticker tape in B. Aires, to the cameras that spent an excellent amount of time focusing on Brazil's skimperly clad samba girls, to the stunning Danish beauties with the face painted flags... many who have seen that and saw the 'fun' in football wanted to go, but felt they could not, until the atmosphere changed. I agree you DO still need the lads on the lash as PART of the crowd and fan base, but it does not need to be exclusively so, and I am glad about that.

Thankfully. When I was taken as a 6 year old to Saints Forest at the Dell in 1975... cant remember anything, but dont think it was a great experience...

But no one is forcing you to chnage - you are free to enjoy football as YOU want to, with your mates, beers and teh match - that is your right. All I am saying is that there has been a shift for a number of cultural and significantly social reasons why football is now more attractive to a wider group who want to watch it in their own way... and that they should also be free to that... why you and a the otehrs get so worked up about football being more inclusive or comments form a few equally minded other fans think is what we are questioning?

It may well be that even in the 30s 40, 50,s and 60s it was blokes and kids driving to the games, but they wore scarves, rossettes and twirled the wooden rattles - Its pretty easy to assume that in thos edays those folk would have had a much more relaxed attitude to other forms of support - you seem stuck in the 80s culture and what was 'traditional' at that time.... that is what you are not acknowledging - you simply dont want football 'fan' culture to evolve from blokes on the lash to families and fun - fair enough if thats your view, but its limiting and narrow minded. The culture will evolve based on what the majority of the fans want and do. You can either accept it, be miserable about it or stay at home, but you wont be able to change it. The only thing that will stop those going who dress up, paint their faces and take their kids, is a return to the intimidating and more threatening atmosphere of the 80s and 90s 'culture' - I could just as validly suggest we shoudl return to teh 40s and go and support pompey when saints are away - that was the culture then so why is it any less valid now than your hang up over the lads on the lash?

...which is the point they either dont get or are unwilling to accept. Fan culture is an evolving thing - you only have to look at it across the decades - everyone just latches on to the one that suits them best (grew up with) and thinks thats it, must not change, must not evolve...

...and? so what, says more about those texting you than about our fans - just tell the tsoser to psis off, we are premier league...

Kracken, Appreciate your perspective, but you are talking about 'constant comments' - which in reality is how many and from oppo fans? seriously, the bench mark should be what our fans want to do and feck those that are critical - as I said, these sort of snide remarks tend to be fuelled by envy, from a few folk that dont appreciate the value in having an inclusive spirit and identity. I have said its not my bag either, but seeing the scenes at SMS last weekend, Cardiff and Wembley, IS something we should be proud of - and the media suggest that to, if we feel we need for some sort of validation.

Yep greta strike, so how come Rooney gets into the top prem all time goals and this doesn't - think this is actually fractionally better than follicaly challenged, granny ****gers effort....

Not speaking for anyone... just looking at a crowd of 32,000 last weekend, 50k at wembley, 40k at cardiff and seeing the vast majority in colours, balloons, many in costumes and face paint as evidence...

Dont post so much then

Guess it comes down to what gives you pride in your club: You and a few others: How we are viewed in terms of a 'propa' club, what we wear, sing or whatever by other fans of other clubs The majority: the fact the club is at the heart of the community, inclusive to all, accepting and embracing of all fans and the way they chose to support, what we achieve on the pitch, the way the club is managed and the not at all concerned with what others think - knowing full well that negative comments tend to be the limited defence of the envious.

Agreed, most L1 and L2 clubs also have some solid youth players hungry to make the grade and get noticed - gone ate the days of old kanckered x top flight players after a few extra retirement quid - they earn so much they dont neeed to do this anymore.

More scary than Dune and his ignorance?

Yes you and the backseat boys have indeed expressed that fact that you 'care' what others think of the club, from top to bottom ad nauseum, that you have 'pride' blah, blah.... when its clear the only fans from other clubs who even give a shiedt about any of this are their own small bands of backseat boys - and you have not answered why what others think should be even relevant - are you 14, spotty and going through that usual adolescent period where you feel the need to impress others rather with every detail? Well at least teh good news is that you will grow out of it.