Frank's cousin

TBH, their best bet is to structure a buy out based on a solid business plan - that would over time give back cash to al creditors in excess of what tehy would get on liquidation - they should look to adress the football creditors first and ensure thats paid... then get in an honest and experienced financila director to sort the mess out and work out a longer term repayment plan for all creditors based on L1/L2 revenues say over 10 years. what they then have left is their annual player budget and stick to it... it really is that simple... stick to a budget. If they had a CREDIBLE of that kind, they could in theory buy ten club for £1, if they can convince chinney he gets his money over 4 years and a chunk of the year 4 parachute...

NOt sure a rating is a good idea, one person's bad is anothers good... and it becomes a popularity contest. I know loads dont read what I post and many who like to think its over blown self important nonsense, who cares, I don't. Opinion is one thing and its all well and good. Anything racist, bigotted (whether cloaked in respectibilty or not) or extremely personal when aimed at family etc is the only thing I would ever report - the rest is down to arguing your case/POV... give as good as you get and dont let the cyber bullies, WUMs etc have th last word;)

For Me Reading at Home... had we won that with all our pocession, we would would have been Champions IMHO. Promotion never in doubt;)

.... also shows just how much the times have realy changed - When we signed Keegan, he was given around £175K ...a YEAR... taking into account inflation , that works out about between 18-20k a week in todays terms... the cost of a Lambert in the NPC - a twice European footballer of the year and maybe £300,000 as week Plus?

Is it me? I post tons of drivel, pompously and with great enthusiasm;) (If its is you wont be able to this though.... doh)

I am glad you are not on my ignore list as this shows remarkable insight - you surprize me constantly

Where as your posts fascinate me...

Do you think that thos ewithout one, wer under any kind of pressure to grow a mastouche?

Isuspect this is an anomolyy caused by several high profile expensive signings such as Carroll and Torres who both went to teams that did worse... you also have the impact on such new expensive arrivals on team attitude, spirit when billy big boots arrives. Think the key to any progress will be actually be in a financial position that means we can offer the best 16 year olds what they would get elsewhere as a first pro contract and keep them for a few years... add in some good wages and get some players on a free/end of contract. For that though you need to find players who share the vision and find teh club an attractive enough proposition - I dont think we wil see players arrive who are just turned by the cash... not our style, but being pragmatic, we may have to be less rigid on that in the PL - where greed seems to be good.

Cant see what the fuss is about - I couldn't give a flying feck about any chairman self promoting, doing whatever they like publically, if what they are doing behind the scenes sees such rapid progress and development. FWIW, I dont think in this case is was abour 'self' promotion - more about a statemet of intent - 'I am in charge, this is what I have to say, we are doing it this way and we will succeed' - message seemed to get through.

It was a guess/speculation mind... based on the issue of self sustaining - but self sustaining can include proviso for infrastructure development through appropriate servicing of comeercial loans... which I feel is OK...its borrowing on players and wages that is the no-no.... CL? again I like teh ambition, and aspiration, but we would need to have our conveyor belt academy working at max capacity to have a periodic chance of this... and that is possible, and most likely what NC was conceptulizing...

Very true... would be interesting to know the total number on the database - plenty on there who have probably only been to or 3 games in 10 years... get them to go to 3 or 4 a season and its a start.... but the best thing a bit of success brings is that the local kids support the club, rather than following whoever are teh current champions

I would say no more than the 10-20 mil probably already covering the Staplewood development - bringing there max total to around 50mil, for an asset worth around 60-70 as a prem club... a fair investment and probably what Markus earmarked. Future growth will be funded by financial investment that requires a commercial return - that is not in itself a hideous thing, as its about getting the terms right. We could afford the Aviva SMS loan in the NPC and possibly in L1, it was not that that killed us, just needs a more pragmatic approach to the wage bill and plater contracts

Reckon for 40-50k upwards of 150-200 mil + the club would need to pay for link roads to the trunk roads etc say another 50mil minimum....so dont se ethis a viable ooptio until 2022/23 season when we have won the 3rd of our Champions league titles. Seriously expansion to 38-42k seems most feasilble/likely optio if required and even that is going to cost around 30-40 mil in todays terms

Maybe the question should be more about what fans think is the current 'ceiling' based on what little we know of an 'plan' 5 years or otherwise, or how its anticipated NC will develop the commercial revenue streams - Think its agreed that progress beyond the odd good season in the top 10 requires substantially more cash than the Sky revenue and gate receipts will support and he has also sated he wants it to be self sustaining... so what is the ceiling and how do we break through it? Some have stated it would require 100s of milliions to get top 4.... well not convinced it would need that amount IF the academy truely can deliver on its potentila and we ca hold on to players at least for their first pro contract .. but thats another debate, so how would we fund any major growth strategy? Some have suggested the famly may invest - FWIW, I dont belive the Liebherrs will be in it long term, unless they somhow get the football bug...so where does that leave us? NC hinte at the time of Markus's death that should the family feel that its time to walk away, he had several contacts within the financial circles that would be willing to pick it up and run with it.. what does that mean? enough cash to buy out, or enough cash to fund major growth, in line with any restrictions under the FFP rules? We dont as far as I know have enough kids of sufficient standard to see 50% home grown by 2017, so that idea would take longer, so its unrealistic to expect top 4 in 5 years , but top 8? top 6? Depends on so many factors and everything has to be spot on. All we know right now is NC is ambitious, driven and demanding - I do not belive he will be satisfied seeing saints only reaise their 'current' potential of a local club stable, but maxed out at a 15-9 finishing position. He will be looking for ways to increase that potential and a strategy for making it happen. When these threads decen into farce, it's in part its more often because either trolled to death by WUMs not allowing those with perhaps over ambitious ideas to state them - there seems to be a need to ridicule... not sure what purpose that serves as it seems the mind set of pre-teens snigg ering behind their screens and any value in their opinion is lost amongst the pis s take. Think the OP questions needs to be split: 1. Will we be in the champions league in 5 years time? - NO - we do not have those resurces to progress that rapidly and NC has also stated that teh club needs to be self sustaining - surely not possible then with our current revenue potential 2. Should the CL aim be in a new '5 year' plan? NO, see above, but without a doubt there should be targets that will stretch the club, and drive it forward 3. Should the CL eventually be our aim? Well IMHO, we need to aim to be the best, set the highest standards for ourselves to drive the club forward. Many fans are content with top flight status and all that this brings resigned to the fact that given our status, history , location, size, anything more is a waste of time. For me though, I do believe you can change that - afterall where were we and all the other clubs 100 yers ago, 50 years ago even 15 years ago? We have shown that we can bring out 55k to wembley - and we could have sold more. How many of those could be converted to regular attendees IF the quality was great and success was possible? who knows, but the club should be striving to attract a many of them as possible - (whether dressed like neds or clowns).

IMHO, any success beyond survival/mediocrity when looking to be self sustaining will depend on creating an evironment and culture that keeps the developing talent at the club until they get to 22/23 - as they seem to in Germany an other countries which manifests itself in cyclic flirtations with Europe and the CL. Its seems that in England there is a prevailing culture of 'I wat it now' and young players desperate to sit on a bench or play reserve team football at 'bigger clubs' rather than proving themselves and playing regularly at their original club... if we can do something about that we have a chance of periodical success as our catchment area and Tier 1 academy already has a great reputation. We need to teach the value of staying and then when they do eventually move, they will be ready for 1st team action, and we will ahve gained some benefit - otherwise the academy is just a money spinner and nothing more. Be in a position to reward them fairly and give them the chance of success with the mates they came through the academy with and I would be happy with that. It would also, IMHO help in growing the numbers of occasionals to more regular attendees - the idea of Adkins 'Babes' creating a good vibe is something that IS possible if and when the academy set up is in full flow - it will take time, but it is not beyond the realms of possibilty that such a model could deliver suprizing results, even if we know that it will be cyclical as the best move on. It would not suprize me if this is what NC meant - maybe suplementing the squad with some quality experience. The problem we have is that there are 4-6 teams in the premier league that can blow us out the water budget wise, whereas in Germany its Bayern and the rest.

I also find it interesting that most people who seem to think we cant push any boundaries and want to accept our 'station', and cant grow our fan base and achieve something remarkable are the same people who feel there is no place in football for thsoe that wish to support the club as they see fit... It would appear that they're not just content with being intolerant towards a minority of fans who dress up daft, they also do not wish to accept that football can change, be it the fan base, the culture or the ideal to challenge preconceptions of what is possible.

Begin ticking off the 800+ monroes, plenty of good guides that finish with nice pubs. Tis stunning and on my doorstep, and criminally dont get out there as often as I should.

Going round in circles.... so; 1. Is there anything wrong with a business or sport aiming to be the very best? ... NO IMHO it should be encouraged surely? 2. Is there anything wrong with discussing/identifying the restrictions to being the very best? No - most are obviously financial, but others such fan abse and growth potential can be overlooked 3. Is there anything wrong in discussing how such restrictions could be overcome? No - dont think anyone believes its a simple matter of money either, but what is more interesting is considering whether there are alternatives to the currently accepted norm and status quo that could see growth and improvemnets happen, despite the odds being against it? 4. Is there anything wrong in trying to speculate on What NC is planning fo the next 5 years? No - its off season and no football to discuss until the Euros - so its intreging as NC has hinted he wants success so what does he relaly mean by that and how will it be acheived are interesting questions as they effect the club? NC does not strike me as the sort of bloke taht will be happy in the bottom half each each - I dont think he does mediocrity - so will be interseting to see whether he is naive or has a plan we aint considered. 5. But what about all thsoe who suggest we should be in the CL within 5 years? The OP posed a hypothetical question as to whether such a high ambition would be part of the next 5-year plan - maybe a little naivly, but surely no harm in speculating and disecting what might be necessary to achieve that if money was not the only issue. 6. Are they not just unrealistic, naive or stupid? Well no one has said we would be in the CL in 5 years - merely discussing what it would take hypothetically and as we seem to agree that aiming high is the best approach its interesting to see what alternatives there might be to achieving success without 500mil cash injected. 7. So its all a big fight over nothing then? Yep, seem some folk simply dont wont other fans discussing something because they consider it laughable and embarassing that some fans want to discuss it... which is a bit pathetic really

Looks to me that there is an obvious disagreement on what our 'potential' really is... which is fair enough. But neither side in this argument has any hard evidence to support the lack of it or the 'no limt' argument. Guess that's why businesses spend fortunes and time on feasibility studies to get some real data before making confoirming a strategy and any tactical plans to implement it. The difference is, that although I have feck all hard evidence to support a rationale that could see growth that we have not seen or never dreamed of as possible, I am with thsoe that advocate having the highest aspiration and most positive plan - and not do not accept that we should have a 'practical ceiling'. Pipe dreams, unrealistc, 'looney ideas'? sure there is no current rationale to suggest that exceptional growth is possible, but I am not arrogant enough to suggest I know all there is to know about growth and expansion in any industry, let alone football..but believe nothing will ever be achived if you are happy to settle with what convention tells you is your limit... As others have said... would rather aim high and fail in the attempt and learn from it, that simply accept mediocrity. As with other thread topics, there still seems to be an underlying concern of how we are perceived elsewhere, the 'look at those deluded mugs down at Sothampton'... 'champions league...they're having a laugh' worry.... well you know what? I have never given a flying feck about that sort of rubbish, usually spouted by those equally happy to accept stagnation and mediocrity. If you want the best, you need to look at the best and not be affraid to strive to be their equal. Man U, Barca and Real Madrid, have gotten their global 'brand appeal' through their success, and clever marketing. How many Asian Man U fans do you think existed when they were last in Div2? Not that many years ago. It has been consistent success on which that following has been built and all 'history' starts as nothing. We should not be affraid of writing a new chapter. Yes against a backdrop where unbelieveable levels of finance has been shown to be the only way any club can break into that exclusive club, yet Tottenham have with a 120mil turnover. Is that a level of finance that Saints could get to? How would they? Commercially or fan driven? Could you achieve what they have done with 80mil revenue if able to bring through more home grown talent? what would the timescale be for such growth? Fair questions if you ask me. The difference seems to be that some of us think its worth asking those sorts of questions because a) we have never been happy to accept mediocrity, b) we seem to have a Chairman who is highly ambitious, smart etc. c) after 7 years in the widerness, ee have momentum and a positive vibe and image of teh club back again, which could harnessed etc... I just dont see what the problem is with looking beyond survival every year.

I know we wanted to push on on in 2003, but looking back, yes we had Neimi, M Svensson, Bridge, but when you look at the rest of that side - Dodd and Claus. Mazza, near the end of their careers, Beatts a freak season when everything just went in, several odd balls such as Fabrice and Anders who never showed the consitency etc... it would have taken major investment to build on that. I place more store on NC stating he wants sustainabilty..self sustainabilty. What that means based on our current experience and thinking is survival places 17-10. I just dont belive that in 3-5 years time that level of 'success' will be enough for NC. If that is the best we can do, cant see him sticking around. As unrealistic as his alleged 'ambitions' may appear, I just believe he will want more and try and deliver it... and therefore, must have some sort of strategy in place - what that is is anyones guess... which I though was the point of this thread... the guessing bit.

Feck knows - all we have to go on is a single quote that was most likely Chairman rhetoric - what spikes the interest in this is simply that after 3 years of quietly going about their business, the club has pulled itself together and is once again investing in infrastructure and building for the future, having dleivered two great seasons - bound to then place teh spotlight on 'what's next? - momentum... how can it be best utilized? Does NC really believe what he said is possible or not? If he does, then like I said above, how the hell does he believe its possible and what would be needed? - speculation and hyperthetica discussion is surely what makes this ...er... fun/interesting/pile of steamin shiedt* *delete based on your mood/general disposition

True, and our chance of a freak season? I mentioned earlier that for us to have a cyclica bash at a top 6 is going to be down to whether we can realise the potential of the Academy and get a freak crop that stays past 16... can teh club be made attractive enough, and rewarding enough to get the best to stay for their first full pro contract?

Turn of phrase Sour, just a turn of phrase. Has anyone on this thread even remotely suggested that if NC says CL it WILL be our only aim and anything else is failure... Seems to me most were simply trying to work out what would be needed if it was... which is a reasonable point of discussion?

Upset? NO, Bewildered, yes... frequently as to why some feel the need to be so miserable about something that as unrealistic as it may be, is a simple discussion about the hopes dreams and aspirations that some fans have... I just find it so ironic that that bck in 2002/3, many of the same who now dismiss ambition so lighlty were so vehemently agressve towards the pompous Lowe for not showing any....