Frank's cousin

:rolleyes:You make yourself look more foolish with every reposte... as everyone can see you cant tell the difference between simple words such as 'why not IF funding is in place' (a speculative response to those suggesting the risk is too great) and me 'demanding' its done today... suggest you should have listened a little more at school and learned to read and c o m p r e h e n d...

Fair point, but for taht we would need to see a comparison betwen actual revenues. I think things may change in future years - when its all gone electronic - when NC arrived they wanted to stop the abuses, and the defaulters on the repayment plans and they probably also had the data on Actual attendence of ST holders - which they would have of actual turnstile entry stubs, or total - the match day tickets sold... I dont know the answer, but I suspect there is a rational for this, if only financial.

If you want to make a complete **** of yourself making things up... go ahead, cant be arsed arguing with you anymore... pointless. Hope it makes you feelgood. For the record, (unnecessary as most will know this from my posts) 1. I am as excited as anybody about possibilty/aspiration 2. I do not share the view that it should be done tomorrow, but acknowledge that there are precendents in business that suggest high risk strategies can work - IF liabilities created through required investment are low risk (hense if Markus had left provison for this and it was always part of the plan, it would be a low risk investment) 3. There are some that do believe it should be done tomorrow and I respect their opinion - I am not threatened by it, nor does it make me uncomfortable that it might mean someone is 'laughing at me or them' 4. Our true potential is impossible to assess right now, you cant base it on previous years because we have not been in this situation in the PL before, its new, but believe 100% that with the right approach, success and pricing strategy we could attract a higher average than the 32k we are restricted to... but like I and many have acknowledged, it is based on many variables 5. We do not know NCs thoughts - but the perception is he is ambitious and woould not be satisfied even mid term with bottom half prem - so what is his plan? what is his target and does he have a plan to realise it.... simple concept and one that I believe was worth discussing and speculating over

Once again astounded by your abilities; you really take the the award for missing the point - Can you really not see the difference between a simple concept as stating speculatively 'funding were in place, what is the problem' (which does not suggest any kind of demand, or expectation that this is or should be related to the Liebherrs) and the second statement which is pointing this out... I repeat.... one one has demanded anything from the Liebherrs....

ha ha calm down old fella, your'll do yourself an injury. 'tedious boring pr ick' ... maybe I was right about your lack of self awareness afterall... thing is I aint pointing an laughing, I leave that to those with nothing better to do with their lives than twitch behind the curtains... no I'm just amazed your so obseesed with it all...

Well its getting folk talking about it! - maybe its a cunning publicity by stealth plan... on a serious note, the recent emails to all on the dtatbase to long on anconfirm details including DOB could suggest its about a more personlised campaign? who knows but why does it seem odd when it was the same last year?

Far too sensible

Its simple, NC has read Dunes posts and is doing it spite him.

Maybe he has more self awareness than I gave him credit for?

I dont believe anyone on here is expecting billions to be spent in some mad push. The premise, was that with if the FFP rules are implemented effctively, our investment in teh academy bears fruit and we are able to offer at least competitive wages and an environment for younger players to see out a first contract, we may get some periodic succes sthat we have never seen before in the PL era... its a hope based on reasonable rationale. The relative odds of it happening depend on a huge variety of things. All anyone has done is then speculate on how it might be possible, whether through familiy investment or growth in commercial revenues or heaven forbid gate receipts... all speculation, all of varying levels of probability. NO one has demanded it happen tomorrow, no one is suggested that NC should suddenly go out and demand 200 mil from the Liebherrs (although CB FY likes to infer that has been demanded), just good old fashioned pub talk... so its incrdulous that some have such a proble with it.... but wait, it might embarrass the weak minded... must be it.

You really are funny, if totally sad. ''Self appointed intelligent posters'' - you chaps are the only ones who have mentioned this in relation to intelligence - so great work there. Considering this discussion was founded on speculation and aspiration, its you cretins who are so obsessed by 'embarrassment' that have made the biggest jokes of yourselves by your constant negativity aimed at nothing more than fans with an opinion and desire to get excited about the clubs potential. Hardly crime of he century, but hey I forget, yor egos are so fragile; 'oh no, other fans might laugh...oh dear' Jeez. To suggest that 'greed of some fans, desperate to see a dead man's money spent spent spent' has been driving this is not only idiotic as it is offensive and highlights just how low you seem willing to stoop to score a point... unbelievable. You seem hell been on acting like self appointed mods declaring topics and converstation as unsuitable, ridiculing anyone's opinion that just happens to be slightly different from your own, and top it off with a patronizing rhetoric. Fans have smiles on their faces and are dreaming of future glories - enjoy the ride you say? Seems to me everyone is and part of that ride is a natural curiosity, a nature desire to speculate and enjoy dreams based on continued success - however realistic is not the issue; the only one giving the perception of not enjoying it are you self appoint 'thought police' who when all's said and done just come across as a bunch of WUMs or worse, miserable old ****s. Considering you have such a vastly superior intellect, I find it odd that you fail to grasp the purpose of a Web forum - a place for free and open discussion on any issue that fans want to talk about... unles, heaven forbid, you consider its embarrassing.... do you really have so little self awareness that you cant see what a total arsehole you are being about a few fans who are dreamers?

Ahr I see you could not resist crawling out from inside Turkish's sphincter to make such a stunningly original and insightful addition to the thread. Well done.

Ah but that is victory for the elite WUM. We cant let them have the last word

I can only assume you are acting the complete numpty as part of the tried and tested WUm methodology, otherwise I would be concerned for your mental capacity, but to humour you: 1. 'shelf stacker in Tescos ask for a payrise and base their demands on what a barrister gets paid' - still totally irrelevent and has absolutely feck all to do with teh point being made. but yes experessed as a percentage of their current salaries - which is what inflation is provided as... 2. Your second point is incoherent rambling and makes no sense as a sentance, pleae could you write it out again using English. I never said anywhere on here that we did not show ambition in 1982. You were, repeatedly ad nauseum, trying to suggest that if we struggled to fill the Dell in 1982 when we had success and showed some 'ambition', then that was somehow relevant to the current situation - I disagree saying its completely irrelevant and has no baring on today's environment. A more reasonable question based on your argument would be, given the current status of saints and the culture in football, would we be restricted at the DEll in 2012 - and the answer could not be more obvious. The only real quetsion relevent to this whole debate is whether SMS with a 32k gate will ever become restrictive realtive to our potential - some think yes, some think no, some think within 5 years, others think not within 15. The 'intelligent' poster is merely suggesting that any compentant business will plan in advance of demand based on the available evidence and forecast. IF the forecast/projection suggest we will reach capacity inside 5 years, then a feasibility study would be made of the costs associated with that investment, cost benefit anaylsis etc - If positive it would then go ahead if it were possible to finance, if not it would be shelved... I am confused at to why some find this very simple idea so amusing to warrant continued ridicule... when the only debate seems to be about how soon would be optimal to review it. Depends on a businesses risk strategy and financial security - soem might make a strong case for a high risk approach which is build in capacity early whilst costs are at current levels per seat if the finance was secure and relatively cheap - with the only potential risk being empty seats, but teh benfits include greater pricing flexibilty and improved revenues for certain show piece games. True, most businesses will not have instant access to cheap cash so will need to adopt a more pragmatic approach - be 100% confident that the returns will support the borrowings necessary to make such an investment. We don not know our financial situation so cant second guess NC.... againwhere is the problem or lack of logic in any of this..?

Who said I earn less than Doctors? ;-) ... but anyhow, I dont get your point? its not about comparing to 'other industries', but to what the relative buying power of that investment/ambition cost us in real terms relative to our our income at the time... which was alot less than it would need to be today....by a factor of around 50 On your previous point, in 1982, we showed some ambition/luck within an affordable framework, but were restricted by growth in gate through the prevailing culture in football at the time, which meant although there was interest, many simply did not wnat to go to games despite the fact its was more affordable and we had success 2012, we have aculture that is more inclusive and depsite being in L1 in 2011 attracted more on average than in 82 - FACT, suggetsing culture had a lot to do with it. We also now have the some success, ambition and some resource, but its buying power is A LOT less than in 82 - and ticket prices are much higher in relative terms - which can also restrict demand. However, on balnace the proposition for families, kids, clowns is more more atrcative as we have seen - now we just need to ensure we make it equally attractive for the other casual fans (who have been to Wembley etc) on a more regular basis to realise our full potential - yes in part that will depend on success on the pitch and in part on the ticket prices and value.

True - in some respect sits tougher to win than teh world cup as only realy the Argies and Brazil missing - but no easy group games to get the rhythm going... will be interesting to see how Spain do, and Germany, good qualifying, but expectation is now high, France should be alot better, the Dutch can go either way, never forget teh Italians, always tough to beat as the Germans found out last time round. England under Hodge? depends on how he plays it and if the old guard can be bothered - think he may play it safe, but somehow can see us doing well whilst playing poorly ... scappy wins and beating better teams... odd

er no I am going on an on to counter your point that if we had such huge ambition in 1982 and could not fill the Dell, then this is somehow relevent to our potential in 2012 - which you should be able to see its not. 182 culture, finance ambition, gate, success KK, has feck all to do with any potentila we have today - as mentioned we had more turn up regularly in L1 last year than in 1982, so it makes you point obsolete

Good loordy - Can you not see that the only way your argument stands up is if the AVERGAE footballers wage had grown at the normal inflationary rate realtive to everything else? Lets make it simple 1982 Average yearly salary £9,000 per year Avergae footballers salary £40,000 per year KK salary £175,000 a year 2012 (if everything had grown in relative terms - meaning it would be Saints showing the SAME level of ambition now as then) Average yearly salary £33,000 per year Average Footballers salary £200,000 per year (£3800 per week) KK type salary approx £650,000 per year (£11,000 per week) 2012 REALITY which shows its impossible to judge Saints ambitions now on 1982 standards Average yearly salary £33k Avergae footballers salary £1.5 million KK type salary £10 million a year + Uhm. what you are comparing is us spending £175 k a year on KK in 182 and saying ist the same as us spending 10 mil a year now - when the reality is that spedning £175 k a year in 1982 is the same as spedning £650k a year now.... 'reasonable' enough in any voice with a brain

- you really are a comic genius what shall I call you then? - TBH I could waste time thinking of something suitable, but you really are not worth the effort

Yes it shows ambition to some degree, happy to cenced that - but from a financila committment perspective it was less of a committment than us signing Rickielambert and paying him 12k a week. That shift has been possible because in part we attract more fans paying higher prices for a seat in a decent facility + supplemented by the Liebherrs - this is why you simply cant make such a comparison

Are you really that thick? or WUMing for Britain

This where you are wrong - We could afford to pay 1 player a wage equivilant to that of 4 players in 1982, because IN 1982 that 175 k a year was like us spending 625k a year on that player in today's terms.... which even without the Sky monies distorting income, many Championship clubs could afford it on gate + commercial revenues - now we could NOT afford a 220k+ a week player even with the Sky money - so using 1982 as amrker of ambition is simple flawed.....

We may have to agree to differ - as you are not seeing the obviousl logic 1982 Average wage - 9k a year Footballer average wage £40k a year A multiple of around 4/5 times the man in the street wage - with me (as this is important) KK was on 175k a year - a multiple of 19x the average wage of the man in the street in 1982 You cannot simply say its the same as 4 or 5 times the average PL footballer wage in today's terms as an indicator - I have just said that a KK wuold now cost 220k a week which is actually 6 times the 33k average.....nothing new there... BUT lets look at what has happened - 33k a week average is 50 times the average annual wage. someone on 220k a week is 357 x average wage (compared to 4 times and 19 times in 1982) If you want to use this as an indicator of ambition, its NO different from us offering a player 19 x the average wage now which would be 33k x 19 = 11-12k a week.... Its really simple and am surprized Turkish with you ogical brain is unable to grasp this simple concept.....

Sure is, but in reality meaningless as everyone else gets teh same or 20 mil more for winning the darn thing - thos eta the top also have CL moneys (20-30 mil) + usually rich benefactors pumping in 200mil+ to supplement wages/transfers... or if like Manure, multi-millions in commercial revenues and sponsorship, so despite what looks like a fair sum, 80% of which will go on wages - its no advantage really.

Usually an issue of gross misconduct and summary dismmissal would be something illegal etc or in exposing confidential information to a third party. From your description its sounds nothing more than 'gossip' around the water cooler' - and whilst perhaps not good form, hardly an issue that would warrant a summary dissmissal - which means they need to take you througha formal disciplinary process... which it appars thay have not done in mentioning 'dismissal over the phone' - It will cost you about £50 but worth phoning and speaking with a solicitor today - one that specializies in employment law ato get all teh facts down and some advice on how to handle it - you will also be entitled to have a collegue who you trust present as your support and witness.. On the face of it sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one, but cant say without all the facts.