Frank's cousin

Think it's obvious that as a club Celtic are way bigger, (if size is your thing...) in all aspects, fan base, history etc...but what Hartson fails to appreciate is that you don't need to be a bigger club to progress your career, just one in a more competitive and globally bigger league. VW, will have chance to show what he can do week in week out against better opposition. How long he stays will depend on whether we get any success/progress and thus can pay him more and attract additional quality. So Hartson is right about club size, but completely wrong to state it's a wrong move. We are a richer club than Celtic, in a better, more competitive league, offering him a better salary, which makes us 'bigger' in the only criteria that matter in these things.

Glad you responded so sharpish sunshine, shows the board you recognise yourself instantly.

So quick to crawl out your shell and have a pop... The lady does protest too much... You must be fricken high maintenance... The lack of self awareness is breathtaking. Go talk to someone who gives a **** about your opinion.

This thread seems to sum up all that is fricken weird with this forum.... First up even the op question is strange... When you go back to the last time in the prem, what was the biggest forum criticism of Lowe et al? 'Show some ****ing ambition' .... Seems like some of you live in a fantasy land where you expect everything and every chairman to be the perfect one... Listening to the 'voice' of the the fan, whilst doing everything else to the highest level of satisfaction... Some of us live in the real world where nobody is perfect. Cortese ain't ... Live with it FFS. He gets the shirt wrong, irritates with parking charges... Fair enough, bad form... But FFS, criticising because he is looking to improve the profile and quality of the team? He has managed to convince the owners of the value in investing, both previously and recently... Is ambitious, and wants to see the club progress to levels conventional prem wisdom says is beyond our level... How the feck is this a bad ideal? Whether he succeeds or not, we can't predict but how can any fan not be at least happy with the ideal? on this forum we have some fricken odd individuals. Alps, you are either on the mother of all wind ups, or need some help. It's football, and in real life, you can't have everything you want. Santa does not exist mate. Reality is that NC is doing it his way, as Lowe did... What is better for the club? Stripes and Delap, or ****e red and going after 20mil signings? 'Why can't we have both, why should they be mutually exclusive?' Because that is fricken life and nothing is ever perfect... Grown ups know about this.... Then we have the really weird. Those who either don't have a job, or whose boss thinks its fine for them to spend all day on every thread responding with sarcasm and never being satisfied until they get a bite, or irritate. How fricken sad, and I mean that with sympathy, that there are some folk who must have realised their lives will never get any more pleasurable, than irritating folk on a web forum... I feel sorry for you... Every club will get some transfers spot on, others will fail. Fact of life, same at Saints... Ferguson gets in Forlan and Jemba Jemba and its no issue, we get Mayuka and Forren, and suddenly we have a ****e transfer policy before they even get a chance... And maybe strangest of all is the apparent pleasure this gives the few to point out failings... Seriously some of you need therapy, to get laid, or even just have a real conversation. Perhaps Forest or Villa should go for these 'unrealistic' signings, after all they have a history do European cup wins?

The great thing about social media is it gives everyone a platform to share their opinions The tragedy is what some chose to do with it. This forum has always had its fair share of those who one can only assume have little alternative opportunity for enjoyment in their lives, and see success as succeeding in irritating others... A sad indictment of their unsophisticated level of humour. Posters don't leave because they are 'frightened' off by them, but simply because they can no longer be arsed.

Dont necessarily think it was ever conceived as a step forward, more based on whatever deal the club got from Adidas. To the club less important commercially than other areas, but it is a shame that given the low priority commercially, the club did not use this as an opportunity to actively engage with fans about what they liked. i suspect the change in direction begun last year was more about 'change' - the same way we now look back at the xerox/air Florida years and associate that shirt with the success of that era, I think NC wants something unique to be associated with what he has in mind... This can go two ways of course. majority will never like it, but we will remember it if it comes with the Success NC is after...

:-) goes to show that whilst you do get some that develop later, the exceptions, most of those 'released' do tend not to be up to the level needed... How many of Hoddle's school for the released have come back as high level performers? Saddest is the wasted talent.... Those you don't progress because of attitude to working hard.

I don't think it's irrational to be emotive about this, after all its the basis of all nostalgia. Two interesting things at play here; I think we tend to place too much emphasis on what we associate with our growing up. For me ironically, Saints memories dominated by Yellow and blue, and the shirt with the thin stripes either side of the thicker stripes ... They years of childhood from the mid to late 70s. It why I can't get all worked up over shirts these days as none will ever get close... Ironically I get the impression that a high number of posters on here feel the same about the xerox Ajax reverse kit... Probably because they are later 30s early 40s and this is the one from their childhood... Those who love that kit but were not even born then probably associate with Keegan and the relative success of those early 80s years. ... The OP laments the shift, the change etc. Well that is true, but not just at our club... If football is about tribalism and belonging for you, then this change hits harder. If football and saints is about the pure game and how far we can progress, then these things tend to less important. Neither is wrong, right , better or worse than the other, just different attitudes both equally valid to supporting your team. NC has not got the balance right ...yet... Maybe he will, maybe he won't. If he does not he will never be a 'friend' to some, no matter what success we might get. But I would add that we are not yet in a position where any deal with a manufacturer is going be all on our terms. If we progress we will command more and have more influence over these things for a bigger return. We don't know the details of the current deal and it could be something as simple as this offering the best terms who knows. the 'global profile' thing is Bol lox. Our profile will be raised through what we achieve if anything and the style we play...end of. Is a plain shirt more likely to lead to increased sales is the question, easier to sell as for some easier to wear casually? Possibly? No down the marketeers at Adidas and the club will have sat through loads of 'data' of dubious nature to make a BS case plausible, nicely trimmed with marketing speak, but the proof of the pudding will be how many are sold.... Or more likely we have a stock kit simply because No one is that bothered as it contributes about diddly squat percent to the turnover...or simply NC thinks we look naff in stripes... Or wanting to put his own stamp on things...who knows... ...finally, what is so wrong with NC wanting to stamp his mark on things? If we have success in this era, then in 20 years many will look back on this time with moistened eyes and nostalgic smiles. What a time to be a Saints fan even if the red kits were sheidt! ;-)

:facepalm:Missing the point completely. Matters not if 99% don't like it. Fact is is some do, why is their opinion not valid, who gives anyone else the right to suggest their opinion is not valid? Its not like some big moral issue, it's a piece of sports kit so it's a matter of individual taste and good on those not worried about falling in line with a majority, but happy to make their own minds up....

You forgot to add in your opinion.... I don't think much of it either, but that's my opinion. Those that like it and re happy, good on them. Your or my opinion Counts for no more than there's. to think so is arrogant and petty...

You don't need a poll, you have stated the facts for all to see.... You obviously know him, the strategy, the implications of the commercial deals, with advanced insight...... Common sense dictates that 99% of fans feel comfortable with the progress we have made. Quite a lot seem justifiably disappointed that maybe with the eye on the commercial ball, fan opinion on other more 'emotive' areas has been ignored - cant deny t has. Difference between fans seems to be the extent to which they get all worked up about it or... Not.

Much rather have our football get us noticed, than the stripes which just like a red shirt was not unique to us anyway...

WUM or naive - not sure which you are.... Or both The 'business' will respond as businesses do, look at the figures - if they sell 20k shirts they will be happy, if not, they will ask why.... Not exactly rocket science. Ultimately if there are enough who don't like it but buy it anyway, then that will inform the club that it can carry on in that direction commercially... As to history, 'what is saints' - each to their own on that, and no one really has the right to suggest anyone is any better than another simply because they have a different attitude towards such things, either more relaxed or the opposite. Personally, my gripe is that it's pretty bland, but won't buy it anyway so not an issue. As to changes away from stripes" we'll IMHO it's just a change, we'll change again in future - and looking forward beats hankering after past glories anytime...

alps - ours study guys (photo shops pros) say both are 'faked' or mock ups - in both cases as well as the pixilation, the aap three logo has a different shadow than the shirt, also the letters are too 'round' and don't follow the folds of the shirts so both 'mock ups' thats not say they are not close to what we might get, who knows, but they ain't actual shirts, even if someone is on the money style wise

Yep... And if they chose to even if they don't like it, we'll that is still their choice and yet you seem to feel its your place to criticise them ... Read you sentence back and think about it properly. In effect you are calling the 20 odd k fans who buy it idiots for buying something they don't like? Get over yourself. It's a fricken shirt and just one way some fans chose to illustrate their affinity for the club... Let them. It's a free country FFS. Popularity is irrelevant to business success - the only measure is number that part with cash. You may not like that, but until sales plummet, you can't argue against a design from a business perspective. Dont like it, don't buy it simple. Seems some on here think that their personal taste should trump the majority held view

I would add that I don't get this need to like every kit every year and the need to buy it. If you like it and want it great, if not don't. If enough folk like it and buy it the club have done good. I don't like that leaked design if that's it, I won't buy it... But ain't going to lose sleep over it, or criticise those that do for whatever reason. All this concern about 'history' ... Personally, IMHO, I am more concerned about how we perform and how we progress than the details of the kit... Future is always more important than the past in my opinion.

Sorry but this a classic example of the delusion that posters think this board is representative of the fan base... It is not. Whatever you believe Cortese thinks is irrelevant. Like all businesses he will respond to what the MAJORITY of customers want - and given the sales and levels of spend on all things commercial, he would argue he IS responding to the customers ... Or at least the majority of them. It just so happens this board is dominated by the minority that don't don't like this anticipated shirt, and as with all business decisions, Cortese will be right if 20k are sold , even if not one is sold to a SWF member .... 'Saints fans love the xerox kit' - sweeping generalisation and symptomatic of the delusion on here that aposters believe they either represent the majority view, or more usually that their opinion counts for more than the 20k who will buy it....

Remember, this crop mostly arrived BEFORE they were back in contention.... (Turkish- the Adrian Durham of the SWF)

Well look at their bankrupt state a few years back... Of course it helps, but they have languished mid table for many seasons since winning the CL back in 97 and gate revenues are not that much higher than ours given there pricing.... Maintain, it's about CL football - means you keeps the talent at least for a couple of seasons... And general attitude. Here 17 year olds seem to want it all now .....

We were never going to try and buy our way top 6 - the Chelsea, City PSG, and now Monaco model etc we are not anywhere near that level of financial power... But if there is one model we seem closer to its that of Dortmund. A strong mix of homegrown and bought youngsters - growing and developing together, and playing a style that offers a greater sum than its parts suggest. The problem any club in the PL has with these 'deluded ambitions' is that the PL has 4 or 6 clubs whose financial muscle is such that even with the Dortmund model, it will be unlikely to bring you top 4... Dortmund had one huge advantage... Other than B Munich the competition is far more equitable financially. Thus gaining CL football, they can hold on to players for far longer than clubs not competing at that level. Lets be honest they are a club in which their stars made their name at Dortmund, not huge expensive star player signings. So what is pretty sad is that the PL is a closed shop re top 4 with the odd exception as the history of our game seems to have attracted the oligarchs and Arab oil money more so than in other EU leagues where the ownership model rules are more restrictive.. Hence France seems a new target...

Bet he's got some great anecdotes! Nice to see a quite light hearted and non heavy interview. Even his NC comments are totally fair... Nc does make strange decisions, but so they are working so no complaints... would be really great if now that things seem quieter, if somhow, just somehow, these guys could get on - both afterall want the best for teh club, and that is all that should matter.

Lad is in that trickey position... too good for a loan move as good enough at 18 to be strong back up and come off the bench... Needs to now put in a decent shift in training and when he comes on to claim a place IMHO. He will get game time, hopefully enough to continue his education, but happy he hungry. Guess will depend on who we sign over teh summer as to whether he will get a loan move - and if he does, really need sto be Championship level with a guarrantee of playing.

Somebody with Photoshop, please add in some maracas :-)

What a coup that would be though... you could be a martyr to the cause! Fighting injustices, exposing corporate nasties and become a hero? Makes me wonder though that if there is such paranoia about 'being illingsworthed' - that the 'wise' approach, might be to enagege with teh club at teh right level first when having a genuine concern, issue, before slagging them in public? Just a thought

Gob first, brain later (if brain is te right wordfor a collective of a handful of neurons), you mean?