West end Saints

Is there a problem?

The pricing with WHU is tricky. If they were at the same stage of their contracts KWP would be worth significantly more than Downes. Downes is 25 and unproven at the top level (63 of his appearances at league 1 and 2 level). KWP is 27 with over 100 prem appearances, performed well enough to be picked for England. Also reliable fitness. He would easily be worth double but clearly the last year of his contract makes a difference. I wonder if there is better value elsewhere than Downes, as much as he would be a good fit with us and RM. The discussion about starting CB - if Stephens and Bednarek are still here and fit at least one will be first choice. No way will Martin want to start in premier league with CBs who are both young and not played at that level

Signed by Martin before I believe

I gather Larios is seen as part of first team squad, and a lot is expected of Meghoma - they won't be relied upon as first choice but fit in well with signing a 30 year old LB (Taylor). I wonder how far Shea Charles, edozie will develop this year. Are Dibling, Bragg and Ballard going to be more involved? These will impact on requirements for balancing the squad

Expected by you? Because you had confidence in him? Most relegated clubs do not go straight back up. Usually one does. Any team who finished bottom, and as far a drift as us is not likely to go straight back up. Teams can improve their chances by investing due to a takeover etc, we had the opposite, we lost a lot of talented players. Just because you knew he would completely turn the team spirit and attitude around, build strong unit and improve players and therefore did as you expected, it doesn't diminish his achievement . He did very well and is understandably and rightly being rewarded.

This is why I'm not stressed at all about the finances. We haven't got a clue. We are pretty sure we are not paying £60m on a player, but my gut feeling is that we are not as tight as some are saying after the amount we had coming in. I'm sure KWP knows he can get a decent offer here and first team football, but also decent offers elsewhere

Can you imagine if we were signing a 25 year old defensive midfielder with about 100 championship appearances, 60 league 1, 10 league 2 and 20 prem, who has spent last year in championship side who finished 4th, wasn't player of the season and we were paying £20m...people would go nuts on here! I would love us to keep him but he isn't worth anywhere near £20m surely?

Difference is we are not a yo-yo club. Those teams have all had half the time we have had in the premier league. 25 out of 33 seasons, and even more established pre premier league days. Of course good players make a big difference, and quality costs, but we have shown numerous times that our best players are not the expensive ones. The key this season will be mixing strong character and good experience (Lallana, Fraser ) with talented young players (THB, Smallbone, Charles etc).

Doubts about age and fitness, but technically a perfect fit for RM style - totally two footed, experienced and calm on the ball, ideal for team trying to play good football when likely to be under pressure. Similar qualities to Stu A, but if has a decent level of fitness several classes above in ability. The post someone added earlier of two younger Brighton players talking about him perhaps also helps explain it. RM clearly wanted to improve the positivity and volume in the changing room, and it worked last year. He will be totally accepted of he plays well. I'm not going to sulk about 10 years ago as I'm not 12! His move was annoying at the time but clearly a 100% success story for him.

Just seen how late seasons starts, maybe 3 games before window shuts?? Suppose not too bad to wait, if he comes as he knows RM's style, but I do worry about signing a player , for a role pivotal to our style, without a preseason

Although he was superb last season, and clearly a player RM likes, I hope we don't wait too long for him. I had never heard from him 12 months ago, and as a 25 year old who has played more in league 1 them prem , I'm sure there are plenty of DM available of similar level.

Right decision. Really hope he gets the club he wants, but not good enough for what we need. Good part of the promotion squad and seems well liked, will be remembered fondly.

I get your argument but one main difference is that Stu is 5 years older. I made the point earlier that a key issue is whether RM has improved players or whether it is too that we have been playing at a lower level. I think Stu was particularly poor in our relegation season, but if he can play at this seasons level than he good behaviour useful. However, his fitness and work rate let us down previously and so, a year older, I would be concerned. He has ability, and seems a positive popular player to have around, so could be a useful squad player. We need to be aiming for better in our first choice 11.

Depends whether his better performance this season was due Martin or the lower league. He was not good enough in the premier league for probably the last two seasons, and one of the reasons we got relegated.

I wonder if the fact that those three games were at the end of 9 games in less than a month, we seem better the more time he has to prepare a team A very successful season, actually think best way to go up

In RM's post match interview he raved about Stephens and said he cannot believe we loaned him out when we needed him in the premier league. He's going to be captain next season.

I know I shouldn't bother but... Concede with EPL players? Defence and defensive midfield- KWP is a good EPL player. Bree / Manning are not EPL players. THB - never played EPL Downes - played more in league 1 than EPL Smallbone - hardly played EPL Charles - played once EPL So leaves Stevens, Bednarek and Bazunu - are these the top EPL players that you rated so highly! Martin has had a good season. You would have snapped someones handoff if he offered you a play off final on last day of last season. Hopefully about to get better...

I sympathise, but how should the club identify the proper fans? I think any loyalty based system would have winners and losers and be criticised. I missed out on games in the past when work caused a pause in my season ticket for a couple of years, so I get your frustration.

Why?

Won't be dark until well into second half

Sorry but that's nonsense. Martin picked the side he felt best to win (or not lose the game). We may not agree with it, but do you really think he would risk 1) his job 2) £ millions for promotion 3) self respect 4) personal pride competitiveness just to make sure we get a little bit more if we sell Mara?? We may disagree, to be fair you couldn't get a consensus on here for any 11 or formation. I Like to think I'm an expert and great coach ... however, if I'm honest, I reckon he probably knows a bit more than me, particularly about opposition, tactics, fitness etc !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hxl2gt?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile Sounds like CEO doesn't agree

Including winning away at WBA....

Why not Downes? He clearly likes it here, loves playing for Martin and has his best form under him. Plus , as I said in earlier posts, a 25 year old predominantly championship / league 1 player is unlikely to have many bigger clubs after him (plus with his injury record). We may not be loaded, but we made a fortune last summer, plus will cash in on players out on loan. I don't think we will need to sell from first team to be able to sign Downes plus others.

There is zero chance our first team will not be significantly stronger than that. If all of those leave they mostly replaced with first 11 signings. For a start reckon we will probably have at least two of Fraser, Downes, Rothwell, Brookes, THB.