West end Saints

In RM's post match interview he raved about Stephens and said he cannot believe we loaned him out when we needed him in the premier league. He's going to be captain next season.

I know I shouldn't bother but... Concede with EPL players? Defence and defensive midfield- KWP is a good EPL player. Bree / Manning are not EPL players. THB - never played EPL Downes - played more in league 1 than EPL Smallbone - hardly played EPL Charles - played once EPL So leaves Stevens, Bednarek and Bazunu - are these the top EPL players that you rated so highly! Martin has had a good season. You would have snapped someones handoff if he offered you a play off final on last day of last season. Hopefully about to get better...

I sympathise, but how should the club identify the proper fans? I think any loyalty based system would have winners and losers and be criticised. I missed out on games in the past when work caused a pause in my season ticket for a couple of years, so I get your frustration.

Why?

Won't be dark until well into second half

Sorry but that's nonsense. Martin picked the side he felt best to win (or not lose the game). We may not agree with it, but do you really think he would risk 1) his job 2) £ millions for promotion 3) self respect 4) personal pride competitiveness just to make sure we get a little bit more if we sell Mara?? We may disagree, to be fair you couldn't get a consensus on here for any 11 or formation. I Like to think I'm an expert and great coach ... however, if I'm honest, I reckon he probably knows a bit more than me, particularly about opposition, tactics, fitness etc !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hxl2gt?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile Sounds like CEO doesn't agree

Including winning away at WBA....

Why not Downes? He clearly likes it here, loves playing for Martin and has his best form under him. Plus , as I said in earlier posts, a 25 year old predominantly championship / league 1 player is unlikely to have many bigger clubs after him (plus with his injury record). We may not be loaded, but we made a fortune last summer, plus will cash in on players out on loan. I don't think we will need to sell from first team to be able to sign Downes plus others.

There is zero chance our first team will not be significantly stronger than that. If all of those leave they mostly replaced with first 11 signings. For a start reckon we will probably have at least two of Fraser, Downes, Rothwell, Brookes, THB.

Or to give a comparison, this is a similar level of time trusted to play in prem as JWP had when he was 18, by 25 he had been playing regularly in prem for 7 seasons. Definitely the right level for us in championship and hopefully straight forward deal for both parties.

He's 25, and played handful of minutes in prem, played more in league one, I don't think there would be much competition from prem. I would imagine if we were a current prem side and signed him it would be slated on here! Having said that 100% want us to keep him, whichever division we are in. He clearly is a good player, and rates Martin. Wouldn't be surprised if he wants to stay, including if we don't go up.

I just listened, fair summary of the season and progress under Martin, and why he gives him a 8.5/10 rating. Most people appreciate this season, but with some frustrating games, and see it as decent appointment. I totally get (and feel) the frustration when we have thrown points away, or had our hopes killed for automatic, which explains some of the emotional negativity. However, I believe this forum can sometimes not reflect most supporters views with a few posters (who are entitled to their view) being very repetitive in their insults.

I do suffer from an irrational dislike of rapist, racist, misogynist, lying, fraudster, traitor who incite violence and undermine democracy.

You are wrong. "British lefty traitors running this country" - conservative party? Police allowing lawful protests - yes a proportion have extreme views, but most don't. (Unless you mean not intervening enough when the white racists hit the police horse?) You need to take a step back and remember how populism works, say something incorrect but extreme enough to appeal to the lower interlects, e.g. opening doors to jihad. Nothing more, no serious information or action, just to grab attention.

Tickets were on sale before time. Checked price earlier and it let me order.

The link literally says you are wrong and it's not changing. "A 2024/25 Season Ticket entitles you to a whole host of amazing benefits as standard. This includes the same priority for all on away and cup matches, the process will still be determined by how many previous away matches have been attended

The problem with that logic is although Stoke had something to play for, we didn't.

Keep. I would be absolutely shocked if they even consider sacking him this season. People seem to forget we have never been favourites for automatic so have pretty much performed as most in the country would have expected. As with most managers November will be key time (whatever division we are in).

I can assure you sold out stadium and two points a game after being a relegated mess does not get you sacked, or even considered. Most promoted teams are not the relegated teams bouncing back up (less than one team season on average). The aim was (and is) promotion, but he is not seen as a failure by the board.

The aim has to be promotion for us, would have been at the start of the season and will still be. If we don't go up I don't think he will be deemed, by the owners, a failure. Most teams won't reach their season aim, for example Man C, Arsenal, Liverpool all realistically aiming for the title. Villa, spurs, Chelsea, Man U, Newcastle all aiming for the champions league. This follows all they way down. I put on another thread the stat that the three relegated teams have never gone straight back up. In fact, on average, of the three promoted teams, less than one is a team who were relegated. This means that it is a myth that our only hope is to go up this season. I'm not defending last night, or other fair criticisms, but think play offs will be the minimum accepted. I would have preferred to be a few points clear in the top two, but if we win the lottery of play offs that's a better end to the season.

Tonight was shit, and not good enough. However it is very entitled to expect or assume promotion, rather than aim and plan for it. We were one of the worst prem sides ever and in a mess. We were far worse than Leeds or Leicester, (and I would suggest they kept / have better players). I don't think that the three relegated teams have ever gone straight back up in their first season. Nearly half of relegated teams don't even make top 6. The average is less than one relegated team goes straight back up the next season. Where has this rule come from, that I read on here, that if we don't go up this season we won't next? History suggests otherwise - as most promoted teams are not those who just got relegated. It's obvious we have had very poor defensive games, struggle without Downes, have thrown many games away - all of which are down to the manager. However, anyone who thinks there is a chance we will, or should, sack Martin when we are about to go into the play offs, on 84 points, is wrong.

If we don't go up the big losses will be Downes, THB and KWP. Defence Fullbacks Bree, Manning, Mehgoma, Larios - maybe one in? CBs - god knows with 4 out on loan, Midfield - Rothwell for Stu Charles for Downes Smallbone stay I can see Aribo staying or going Fraser will stay Wouldn't be stunned for Brooks to stay Edozie Dibling A Armstrong Sam AA Maybe Bragg more in the squad Forwards I can see Che and Mara both leaving, so just Stewart Ballard maybe promoted Priority has to be CF and CM (and probably CB dependant on JB and loans). Clearly will be weakened by three main names going but don't think we will be ripped apart. (Edit - forgot Sulemana, prob leave, as not managed to cement a starting place but a shame for all the frustration I do look forward to him coming on)

Is this following on from MLT video and is it clues? 4 + 5 =9? 50 =1959? Barbie launched and Luna 1 first man made trip to space.. Barbie coming from space to lead us?

I wasn't totally convinced by Brooks, but he is assisting and creating chances. Re PNE stepping up in second half??? 2nd half only possession 81% / 19% shots 9 / 0 accurate passes 389 / 59 total passes 426 / 101 pass accuracy 91% / 58% passes in oppession half 269 / 38 touches in opposition box 19 / 2 xG 1.15 / 0 And this was with us resting the complete midfield three, and both wingers! (and already having the game won and important games coming up!) It was a totally professional and comfortable one-sided half. PNE did not react at all, we outplayed them through out. (they actually had more possession, shots, xG, passes, etc in the first half. There was nothing in that second half that could rationally worry anyone!