West end Saints

Would struggle to be as bad as Downes and Aribo have been this season

Best side I can find there: Ramsdale Livramento , KWP (relegation season one not this season!) Salisu / THB (several similar standard) Lavia / JWP Fernandes, Tella Adams So compared to a team coming bottom I can only really see Ramsdale and Fernandes as improvements, central defence and CF not much difference, Fullbacks and midfield significantly worse. Can't think why we are bottom again!

Our best player this season. Strange thread.

Out of our midfielders / forwards I could only see Fernandes getting decent game time at any other prem team - in these areas so much weaker than when we last finished bottom. Downes / Aribo / ugochuckwu JWP / Lavia / Romeo Massive downgrade from a team that was easily bottom. RM was a problem, but poor players a bigger one and harder to put right

It was right for him to go, and probably few would argue against the case for it being done sooner. However, this team is poor. I doubt Juric, or Danny Rohl or whoever would have had us safe , maybe we would have edged the games against Ipswich and Wolves and Leicester and be in sight of the others. Bottom line likes of Downes, Aribo, Archer and Armstrong would not be likely to get any starts at any other side.

Current points and games until end of Jan, will leave you to add your predictions! Saints 6 points H whu A palace H Brentford A Man U A Notts F h Newcastle A Ipswich Total for Feb 13? Ipswich 12 A arsenal H Chelsea A Fulham h Brighton H mancity A Liverpool H us Total 15 ? Wolves 12 points , Maybe 5 more from theirs Leicester 14 +6= 20 Still don't think we stay up but we have new manager and potentially easier fixtures so would be good to at least be back in sight by start of Feb so we have some interest in the table going forward

Agree, although no doubt how good he was at the end of the season, there is a big step up in the athleticism and speed of thought needed for a prem CM. His touch and attacking passing was very effective at the end of the season - (although some who clearly can't remember those last games mocked!) he was named as the player of the plays offs by the Second Tier podcast. I'm not sure he would make the step up to be a starter at this level tbh, although so far Aribo and Downes haven't looked it!

Harsh on Smallbone. He was the best player over the three play off games and key to us being promoted. How can playing him be poor judgement? Not sure how he would be doing this season if he had been fit (prob no worse than Downes)

Only Bazunu, JWP and KWP played more prem minutes than him that season.

Main players for us when we were relegated were: Bazunu KWP ABK Salisu Jan B Perraud JWP Lavia Elynousi Stu A Che Plus Adam A, Aribo, edozie, Alvarez, lyanco, Maitland- Niles, sulemana, Theo, Mara I would have Ramsdale, Fernandes, and maybe THB over players from last squad (Dibling can't be expected to play the majority of a season at 18). Central midfielders are shockingly weaker and a real concern. I'm not commenting on managers, or our under performing this season but clearly we have a squad that most should expect to be bottom. Who would you pick from a combined squad?

Suggestion... Rather than your current debate... Of all of the linked potential managers , as you are into research, what are their pros and cons, who do you feel are likely and who would you want?

To be fair, Downes has looked nowhere near ready to play in the premier league all season

This is why I don't tend to get too excited or annoyed with appointments - relegated and sacked struggling in the championship (from memory) hardly inspiring at the time!

Wouldn't be surprised if someone like Gerrard.

Those moaning, who are the great players missing out??! This squad is clearly worse than our relegation season, hence I going to each game with very low expectations. Goal keeper better The defence a bit worse Midfield miles worse Forwards bit worse Our manager is underperforming but most managers would be relegated with this squad.

Agree, that's my only last target

You think we have had worse players than this? Which of this squad are good enough? Even for a bottom 4 side?

Our biggest, of several problems, is lack of premier quality players rather than the manager. Maybe a better manager would improve us a bit, but we have never had a team anywhere near as weak as this.

I am not convinced we would improve, I think our position is more down to poor squad, this is the worst team / squad - clearly Martin is doing badly, but I don't think he has got the team massively under performing. Who from our squad would get many minutes at even a relegation rival? Maybe three players. Pep would probably be relegation zone with this lot

I was concerned in the summer, a lot of money to spend on 25 year old who had played more in league 1 than prem. Wasn't convinced he was a good signing - at that price - and even less convinced after what I have seen so far, one of poorest players this season

Another, "we only one because one of our players is good and the other team were not allowed to score illegal goals" argument. Imagine for a second people using that the other way around for one of our defeats! We have had and will have games when we get less out of them than our play deserves, and vice versa, accept it happens rather than change what is important. Could of sworn I read multiple repetitive posts on here recently that pretty football or possession don't matter it's about winning - well we did! Enjoy it, our players aren't great and won't win loads!

Relied on one of our players (who repeatedly said RM's the reason he is here) playing well and an offside goal being disallowed, er ok. Imagine if we lost, would you accept someone making excuses saying it was only because one of their players was good or cos we weren't allowed to score illegal goals! Enjoy the win, this squad isn't getting loads this season!

I suspect our biggest issue is the quality of players rather than the manger. I doubt many would get into other sides in this division. I'm not yet convinced of Downes at this level, I was concerned when we prioritised his signing and his value , as a 25 year old who had played more in league 1 than prem. But was excellent last season, wants to be here, etc so hopefully will come good. But Archer, Cornet, Armstrong, brereton Diaz, PO - would they get many minutes elsewhere? Personally. I would have RM over Dyche every time. The club doesn't have the money to easily sack managers then deal with changing the squad for a new manager. Hopefully now we have that first win we can pick up enough points to keep in the fight, if that's the case I hope he stays.

I love his football, best for years - when it works. Some games we are shit, too slow etc. but the quality of movement, passing , making opponents chase shadows is great. Since he has been here it has worked more than it hasn't. When we play badly, and team lack energy, too slow or cautious etc the style always gets blamed (and is a factor). But we have always had bad games. Hope he has enough success to be here a long time.

Christ, drama queen reaction to one game! The same line up that played very well away to Newcastle and had 20 plus shots 80% possession - albeit against 10, but we're well on top before sending off. A good chance line up will change but anyway... Think Smallbone could keep his place, played well v Newcastle and was our best player over the last few weeks of last season - one so so game isn't the end of his prem career I'm sure