Alain Perrin

Ahhhh, you've gotta love Cher - such natural beauty. As the administration witching hour approaches, has anyone changed their view on it's merits? There were some vocal supporters of administration as a clean broom to get rid of Lowe et al. Now more is known about the process/penalties etc., I'm interested if the sharp end of administration has changed anybody's mind? Put simply would you prefer a relegated Saints, without -10 but with Rupert Lowe, or our current situation? Not meant as a told you so, just interested.

I liked Hoddle and would have welcomed him back. He was a manager who could change things tactically and change the match. I always remember thinking that, under him, if we were rubbish in the first half, the second would be better. Better than Strachan's 65 minute stock Fernandez / McCann switcheroo anyway. That said he was an awful signer of players (something WGS got right). Mark Draper FFS. So I'd welcome him back as Coach, but not let him sign anyone.

Did Wolves get relegated under his tenure?

But if we didn't appoint Wigley and we did appoint Hoddle. And if the fans did support the return of Hoddle and didn't protest about it. We didn't get relegated. QED. The fans did have something to do with it. And... if you want to drive it further. Because the fan's were proved wrong (in Lowe's eyes) AND he listened to them, it probably strengthened his own mind not to make that mistake again. That, in due course, led to the sacking of Nigel Pearson (which the fans DIDN'T want) and ultimately our relegation from the Championship (if you believe NP would have done better). QED - the fans caused the destruction of the club. FACT (or not, but it sounds better than conjecture)

Well the first bit might be, but the second bit isn't because he's still on gardening leave. I've not seen Forecast - is he crap? (I'm sure that some of those who gave such a valid initial assessment of Kelvin will be glad to give their views....)

Get behind the 'SFC is dying' mentality FFS

In the early years of a mortgage you are paying off a larger proportion of interest. I paid off £14K from mine last year. Net reduction in debt £3.5K. Sod all really. As I understand it the loan was restructured (term, conditions, rate) to make it more affordable for a non-Premiership club. This would have made annual payments more affordable, but at the cost of an increased total (hence the jump from 22m to 23.7m).

Go ahead for free. But if you add in: Woggy £50pw Steve (Carparks) £120pw Roger (Security) £180pw Teresa (Barstaff) £100pw Geraldine (Secretarial) £250pw Derek (Grounstaff) £200pw ... then pretty soon you have something that approximates a League 1 footballers salary. That's market forces for you.

I don't doubt that he's a nice guy, but on this thread we so far have: - Lowe sacked him out of spite. - He left in protest Classic examples of re-writing history. Club in financial difficulties. Look at which roles can be cut. Decide the kit/utility man can be one of them. If you look at it financially, he's a wage in a column on a spreadsheet somewhere. If you look at it emotionally, he's in his 60's will probably be less affected by it than Derek the groundsman who has a young family. Eitherway the budget has to be cut as we have to avoid administration. It's irrelevant how little his salary is, those pesky footballers are on fixed term contracts with big exit penalties. The office staff are on a months notice. Every little helps.

Just bored with the waste of bandwidth, but if you've got the memory of a flea and need to re-read it each time it is quoted please carry on. I've answered some of the questions with my opinions below: Paragraphs 1 thru 8 are a bit of a rant, so I'll leave those. Paragraph 9 - Nigel Pearson. I agree this is was a strange decision and not one I can, do or did support. I can only think that RL didn't think NP would do the business with the '**** or bust' youth strategy. When we lost NP we lost a shot at unity. That said I do think NP would have found it tough with the players we were left with. As to why Wilde agreed, I don't think he had a choice. His investment was going down the tubes, he'd fallen out with Crouch. Lowe offered a solution, he took it. Paragraph 10 - JP / MW, young player morale, tactical chaos, infighting between JP and MW. - I think RL genuinely thought JP would be better developing the young players than Pearson. Plus he has always been keen on an Ajax model. - Early on the morale was there, we were great at Derby and vs. B'ham. I think in October when the boyz played well but were generally unlucky, the doubts crept in. - On tactical chaos - I never really bought the 4-5-1, 4-4-2 argument, but we were too defensive at home and that cost us. - The only knowledge I have of MW and JP arguing is post JP's departure. He's bound to feel betrayed. Para 11 - Player signings. - I think we expected to lose more players than we did, which accounts for Forecast. Gasmi and Schiederlin were both seen as investments. George Prost tips and he's been right before. Pulis in my opinion was just a makeweight (and a useless one). Para 12 - Player Freezout. You can use the term "You’ll never play for Saints again" or you can use the term "the club can't afford your wages and we need to move you on, if you do stay we won't play you as we can't afford the bonuses in your contract". Saints needed to get big monry players off the books. This wasn't unique to Lowe. And I'm bored now.....

Nope, just a plain old fan / ST holder. I've not even sampled the award winning catering at St Mary's. I love the 'reds under the bed' mentality you've got - where everyone with a different opinion must be a director / cronie. I'm not a luvvie, just a realist.

I am not sure what the rest of your post means, but Verbal's post, whilst asking some good questions was far from even-handed. Any piece which says "Frankly, the Football League should seriously think about coming up with a point-BONUS scheme – in which any club having to endure being led by such demonstrably appalling characters should have ten points added before the start of the season.", whilst amusing, has clearly nailed it's colours to the mast. Even handed would recognise that others share responsibility for our financial plight. Plus there are other factors not related to Lowe. For example, football finance issues disproportionately hit relegated clubs that have been in the Premiership for a long time because their wages / fixed costs rise when the times are good. But please, don't let me stop your 'Lowe is the anti-christ' mutual masturbation over Verbal's post, but can people stop copying it in full each time.

Perhaps Lowe's biggest mistake was not putting the holding company into administration when we were relegated to the Championship? When we had the Radio Station, Saints Insurance Services and our award winning catering (which means the hospitality, weddings etc., not the pies), there would have been far better grounds for arguing the different legal entities were not 'intrinsically related' or whatever term the Football League used. Ironic that the things most derided might have saved us a minus -10 points. End of the day though it is the players on the pitch that matter and today shows we can't hold onto a lead and don't deserve to be in the league.

Not sure I agree, but then I don't have the figures. No doubt someone will come on here with their street-car economics and explain exactly what happened. When the reverse takeover happened Lowe and Co had assets in Secure Retirement Ltd. These assets are now worthless. If you net off the salary/dividends against those what is the result? All I know is that Lowe invested in a Premiership team and will end up getting back (best case) 20p in the pound, worst case nothing. At one point his 'investment' was worth 6% of £50m - coincidentally £3m.

Completely disagree. I have always had a problem with Rupert Lowe, primarily because he divides the fanbase, but also because of some of the decisions he made. The difference is that I don't think that everything he did was wrong. The same goes for most of the key players - I genuinely believe they all want what's good for Saints. The trouble is, at the time Lowe was first ousted, I didn't think much of the opposition. I was taking what I saw to be the least risky option (opposed Wilde - I thought his bandwagon approach was pandering and thought that although Leon's heart is in the right place, his head wasn't). Lowe's return was a different matter. We were clearly (even then) up financial **** street and a tight bastard like him was exactly what we needed. I didn't agree with letting Pearson go though, and was very surprised when he did it. That said I'm not of the belief that Pearson would have made a huge difference given the cuts to the playing staff, but 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. Regarding the tenner, no one has posted a picture yet. Although I expect Stanley is hard at work on Photoshop as we speak.

Completely disagree. I have always had a problem with Rupert Lowe, primarily because he divides the fanbase, but also because of some of the decisions he made. The difference is that I don't think that everything he did was wrong. The same goes for most of the key players - I genuinely believe they all want what's good for Saints. The trouble is, at the time Lowe was first ousted, I didn't think much of the opposition, so was taking what I saw to be the least risky option (opposed Wilde - thought his bandwagon approach was pandering and thought that although Leon's heart is in the right place, his head wasn't). Lowe's return was a different matter. We were clearly (even then) up financial **** street and a tight bastard like him was exactly what we needed. I didn't agree with letting Pearson go though, and was very surprised when he did it. That said I'm not of the belief that Pearson would have made a huge difference given the cuts to the playing staff, but 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. Regarding the tenner, no one has posted a picture yet. Although I expect Stanley is hard at work on Photoshop as we speak.

see first paragraph, post #460

I don't know precisely, lies damn lies etc. But he'd have lost roughly 40% of the 3million to the taxman, so what he actually took out was a lot less than the headline figure. That's not to say he didn't take anything out of Saints, just that the perception he's sitting on bag of illgotten gains is a myth

The mock outrage related to the all to common approach of twisting what someone says to favour your point of view (I.e. Wheeling out the "fans fault" argument). Both sides are guilty of this hyperbole, but it's just a bit tiresome. I've been to the City ground and there's about as much chance of me winning euromillions than anyone (other than Lee Majors) seeing Rupert Lowe from the away end. Therefore, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if he was there or wasn't.

Would you rather RL had bought a ticket in the away end? God knows what some of the knuckle draggers would have done... Like him or not, I cannot see how you can be intimately involved in a club for as long as Lowe has without becoming a fan. Lowe will lose more money than he's made on Saints. And that equates to probably more than I'll ever spend in season tickets. Disagree with his methods, but no one can say that relegation/administration is good for anyone, least of all Lowe.

A classic example of mock (or should I say ****) outrage. Where did I say it was just due to fans? The ****ing contest starts in the boardroom and washes through the directors boxes, down over the fans and onto this forum. If you can't see that a club divided stands less chance than a club united, then you're deluded.

May I be the first to say..... MLT out

I wanted to give everyone the opportunity to take part in this exciting competition. I felt if I added it to the 9 pages of pap that make up the other thread people would miss out. Anyone who has been to the city ground will know it is difficult to see the directors box from the away stand, so I think my money is safe.

Much (unnecessary in my opinion) furore over whether Rupert Lowe is going to Forest today. I think it makes no difference whatsoever to a match day experience but I am prepared to offer this challenge. I will offer a prize to the best photo of Rupert Lowe in the Forest directors box. Personally I believe nobody will see him, but I am prepared to admit I am wrong. Some people seem convinced he will spoil their day out, but I don't believe this.

It's the ability to recognise someone can do something's right, and something's wrong. Just because they do something wrong (in your opinion) doesn't mean that everything they've ever done is bad. You should try it, it's liberating. Personally I'd like LM away from pitchside. I don't care about the rest (I was only 2 in '76). The PA system is so bad where I sit, once you get a northerner on, I can't understand a word he says on the microphone...."something about cheese..."