buctootim

I just wanted to confirm that colonial inhabitants only have a deciding voice when it suits us. Its an optional luxury to be given or withdrawn depending on how big a stick / carrot the opposition / allies have. As long as we're clear self determination is not a principled decision as far as the UK is concerned - just a politically expedient one - then Im good with it.

Blue whales in the Itchen on their annual migration from Woodmill.

How did the Hong Kong one go? and the Chagos?

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Thats rather rich Verbal. 1. You try to condescend to most posters on here and flounced off from Sotonians simply because you were in a minority and losing the argument. Very Corbynist. 2. You make a rather superior ad hominem attack accusing me of ad hominem posts and superiority. 3. I didnt vote for Corbyn. I wouldnt vote for Corbyn, although I think he would make a good minister in the right department with the right PM 4. I have voted Tory, LD or Green far more times than I have voted Labour. I engage in proper argument with anyone who wants proper argument. Those who make snipey remarks but add nothing to the debate I make snipey remarks to or ignore

If that was so effective why wasnt she re-elected? To be clear. There was no public support during the junta because they were coerced. There was no real support during Kirchner because she tricked people and there is no real support under the current government because....? Im so glad that kind of thing could never happen here.

What about now? Why are those pesky Argentinians still holding the wrong views when the junta is long gone and they are no longer savagely coerced? Below is YouGov survey. Why do they think the islands are more important to Argentina than Brits think they are to Britain? http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/fjcjgj8uaj/YG-Archives-YGIbarometro-FalklandResults-100412-Summary_WLogo_corrected.pdf http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-21673504 http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/629216/Argentina-never-give-up-Falklands-new-president-Cristina-Fernandez-de-Kirchner

Looks like they are planning to have the entrance on the other side of the site onto the bigger and busier road. That would create issues as well

Charlie I like your posts and have enjoyed sparring with you. You've made some good points so its a pity you've gone down the lazy route of "well you would think that because because you're leftist anti imperialist". That would be an odd position for me to take as the military junta were systematically killing leftists. You then attack my analysis as "trampling all over history" without giving any examples of where I am factually wrong. Why is it "revisionist" to ask why two different populations see a situation so differently? Both populations saw the conflict as their country rightfully regaining what had been wrongfully taken from them. What the Brits see as an Argentine invasion they see as a liberation from foreign occupation. What we see as a glorious patriotic operation to free Brits from the oppressive yoke (yes the same Brits we had told the previous year they werent Brits anymore) they see as a violent recolonisation killing 1,000 people whereas their operation killed no-one. As I said previously the best result would have been transfer and leaseback for 100 years - thats a much much better deal than we gave Hong Kong or the people of the Chagos. Why did we forcibly evict the 2,000 people of the Chagos Islands at the behest of a foreign power, but get the army to defend the Falklanders? In Hong Kong we had a treaty guaranteeing occupation in perpetuity, instead of "well they were empytish at the time so we annexed them". We didnt need to give Hong Kong up we just decided the economic loss and death toll of defending it wasnt worth it. We sacrificed 255 military personnel and three islanders for a Falklands population out of 2,000. The same death rate for Hong Kong would have seen over 700,000 British dead and 2m Chinese. At what point does a foreign policy sometimes founded on high minded principles and sometimes on elastic pragmatism in a wider national interest become hypocritical? If you are hypocrtical in foreign policy why should other countries respect your actions?

sex

I was genuinely thinking about you when I wrote it - the inability to break out of set patterns.

Bit harsh. Seriously, I think they deserve it.

PL team complacently field reserves and youth against lower league club in FA Cup. Lower league team bust a gut in the first half and dominate but run out of steam after 60 minutes. A few senior pro PL substitutes kill off the game. Our match against Man U when we were in Lg1 is one of my favourites. Even though we lost it was the moment I knew we were on the way back.

Quiff

Any thoughts, facts or reasoning behind that or just a random tourettes thing?

I'm interested in what makes people hold the views they do more than the specifics of a particular war or vote. People like to to portray themselves as independent thinkers, but in practice mostly uncritically follow party / club / national line. At the time of the war, irrc, around 85% of both Argentinians and Brits thought their country was in the right. There is only one set of facts - mostly undisputed - yet two diametrically opposed interpretations of them. Government and media spin plays a part, but also there is a large dose of people selectively believing what they want to hear. They dont want to fall out with the group - or worse have the beliefs they have built up over a lifetime challenged or contradicted.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=strawman+frenzy&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=979&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiO0Y6EsdTKAhVMshQKHYzZCuUQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=strawman+meme&imgrc=iZPaGwY2VckBdM%3A

What are your thoughts CB? We've all seen the acid one liners, endlessly. They are pretty easy to do, but what about actual views, ideas of your own? You think the Falklands was really a justified jingofest or a bit of ****up. Reasoning would be welcome too.

It doesnt start well. Stephen Greer cant spell 'Disclosure'. I switched off at the Transdimensional Foo Fighters of WW2.

Also now is likely the highwater mark of immigration from the EU - when the UK unemployment is relatively low and some major EU economies like Spain are weak. In the past, and probably in the future too, far more UK nationals have been going abroad to live and work than EU nationals coming here.

They used tear gas and were under orders to avoid casualties. They didnt fire a shot. The bullet holes sometimes misreported were from a subsequent attack by British forces on the barracks when they were being used by Argentinians.

I didnt realise the resolution on the Lebanon-Israel conflict was relevant.

Its probably because Northampton and Plymouth are mid table PL standard, or something.

I didnt, and am not saying that responsibility for the war lies solely with Britain. Clearly the junta were repressive and launched an illegal occupation - in which its important to remember they were careful to not kill anyone. However it was profound British political and diplomatic failings which led them to believe there would be no serious repercussions, certainly not a war. Since both sides didn't want a war, but one happened anyway, the question then becomes who takes most blame for bringing about a war no-one wanted? It seems to me most of those were on the British side who were sending out confused public signals in different parts of the globe. You have to remember Argentina had been playing nicely in discussions for 15 years at this point and had the backing of a UN resolution. They felt they were being strung along and making no progress whilst nearly every other remaining British overseas territory was being changed. Belize, Brunei, St Vincent, St Lucia, Antigua even Zimbabwe and others all became independent in the early 1980s. Britain was already in negotiations to hand much wealthier and more important Hong Kong to China against the wishes of its 7 million population - because we feared an invasion otherwise. Why should Britain behave differently with to 2,000 people on a couple of wind blown islands? - especially, as you said, with Endeavour and citizenship being withdrawn indicating a lack of will and commitment.

Earl