Matthew Le God

Beat you to it by a minute. Deserves its own thread really. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?38603-Season-ticket-video

Deserves its own thread... Enjoy.

The whole area of "bigger clubs" is subjective and makes it especially hard to determine the closer the sides are. Hence why it is easier to distinguish the bigger between Man Utd and Darlington, compared to Everton and Saints. In terms of population, it isn't simply a case of looking at the population of Liverpool and saying in a "top trumps style" that they beat Southampton. Nottingham is a bigger city than Southampton, yet would you claim Notts County are bigger than Saints? Also you at least appear to assume (given you awarded a point for each factor), that all factors should be given equal weighting when determining "who is the bigger". I'd argue that some factors play more significance than others.

I've already answered this. You are making this hard when you refuse to read my replies to you.

Is it hard for you to understand that some questions can't be answered unless you have the required information? Simply forcing someone to answer despite this is a bizarre logical step. Also see post #336.

Simply saying Liverpool and Birmingham are bigger cities than Southampton isn't enough justification. Nottingham is a bigger city than Southampton, yet would you claim Notts County are bigger than Saints?

I've already given an answer to that. It isn't a question that can be answered at present with the information available to us. "Bigger club" debates are all very subjective and ultimately pointless and end in circular arguments anyway.

I asked when it started, you still haven't answered.

No, what I wanted you to do was to look at when Saints averaged 30k in a 32k stadium and came 20th and compare that with Everton coming 7th and averaging 33k in a 40k stadium. Can you honestly not see how that is telling of the fanbases? No, of course you can't, hence why we keep having these circular arguments and even I am now starting to get bored of them!

And how long has that been used for? Even in the 1990's Udinese were only averaging 23k, which means they had fewer home fans than Saint did in League One.

You clearly didn't read and/or understand what I said. In any case... Just more circular arguments. Back on topic, what does everyone think could be in the red building? Also the red building is merely the top part of a larger structure underneath that wraps around the Chapel Stand, what could that be? Maybe a sunken arena like the Ricoh? With the red building on top a museum, conference hall, megastore...

Okay, why haven't Udinese averaged over 20,000 in the Italian top flight since 2001?

You are continuing to ignore the counters I raise and the questions I pose, so I can't be bothered with this line anymore.

You are aware, of course, that Udinese haven't averaged over 20,000 since 2001 aren't you? That can't be solely down to the match fixing scandal can it?

That is the complete opposite of what I said in the post you just quoted.

Which is why I told you before it is hard to make a comparison, because until Saints have a larger stadium and finish as high as Everton in the league, how can you tell? For most of Saints' 126 years they have been restricted/stunted from fulfilling what they could.

They are smaller than Saints, as Saints averaged significantly more whilst in the English 3rd tier compared to Udinese as a Champions League team in the Italian top flight?

Where did I say it was a fact or definitely happening? The question mark in "Our future?" on the first image is significant. However Cortese does so far have a good track record of seeing things through, League One to Premier League in 3 years (not 5 years), £15m training ground development and category one academy. Unlike Pompey for example with images of a new stadium and Mandaric in a digger for the training ground that never happened. I doubt they took the decision to reveal these drawings if they were an unlikely pipe dream, I'd imagine Cortese has stadium redevelopment high on his list for his future for Saints.

How does Goodison Park being bigger, make it better? Fratton Park used to have a capacity of over 50k in the 1950's, does that make it better than St Mary's? You failed to address my point about Everton, they came 7th last year and averaged 33k in a 40k stadium. It being 40k allowed them to boost the average by having some games close to 40k. Saints on the other hand are restricted to 32k and are not able to boost the average with gates close to 40k, despite that even in the relegation season they had an average close to that of Everton finishing 7th in a 40k stadium. Had Saints been in a 40k stadium and finsihed 7th in the Premier League do you think they would average more or less than 33k, given they could boost the average with some attendances close to 40k?

Which is why there is a huge red building to the left of the stadium, with anther building surrounding it. The club will want to expand revenue streams under FFP, not just from ticket sales. It makes sense to invest in projects that open up new sources of revenue. This redevelopment isn't just about more bums on seats.

They aren't in HD, the stream stops and nothing beats the experience of being at the stadium.

Historic attendances - unknown as Saints have only recently moved to a stadium with a capacity in excess of 30,000. Everton last season in coming 7th in the Premier League only averaged 33k in a 40k stadium. Something that Saints would have beaten if they had the same capacity as Everton do. Saints averaged 30k whilst 20th, so to think they couldn't beat 33k whilst 7th and in a 40k stadium is foolish. The big games would sell more and pull the average up. League and Cup performance - yep you are right Everton are better here. That isn't to say it will always be that way, Saints have been restricted for most of their history by other factors, some of which they have now overcome. Population - Yep, Liverpool is bigger than Southampton, but it is a 2 club city and Tranmere is also very close albeit relatively small. There population isn't reflected in their attendances and also have far more in the way of competition surrounding them than Saints do with Pompey and Bournemouth. Infrastructure - I don't know where you are going with this. Goodison Park is not better than St Mary's, yes it is bigger but it is very dated and lacking modern facilities. The Staplewood development is better than Finch Farm and Saints academy is up there with the best in the country as I thought you would already know.

The TV games aren't spread evenly around, some teams get significantly more than others as I'm sure you know. Saints last season were on TV just as much as those at the bottom of the Premier League.

Where have you got your 8k, 4k and 4k figures from? I did say it could be more than 45k, I was only guessing. Maybe it is the figures you use and capacity will go upto 48k.

You are missing a key point. Man Utd to Darlington is easier to compare than Saints to Everton. Darlington is a small market town and struggle to break the 2k mark in a 25k stadium in the 5th tier. Saints averaged circa 22k in the 3rd tier, 26k in the 2nd tier and sold out regularly whilst in the top flight, we don't know what their upper limit is as demand outstrips supply when Saints are in the top flight. Everton averaged 33k during a season of a 7th place finish, despite being able to average 40k in theory but failed.