Matthew Le God

Why do you think they aren't meeting the terms of the CVA?

I've been here from the day this forum started. Just because you don't agree with me, doesn't mean I "ruined it". A number of people have a similar viewpoint to me in this thread. In any case, this is a public forum, the purpose of which is to debate Saints related topics. Most on both sides of the debate have done so relatively civilly, so what is the problem? If you don't like my posts you can block me.

It was more than just the "big sides" that St Mary's sold out for in that period. It was also a period of three mid table seasons and one relegation campaign. Yet all averaged over 30k. Cortese has bigger plans than Lowe ever did whilst he was in charge during that period, and importantly he has money match those ambitions. All clubs have a core fanbase, they make up most of the crowd when we play teams like Dagenham on a Tuesday night in League One. There are also large numbers of casual Saints fans that will turn up if things are looking good. A strong Premier League team with investment is a more attractive proposition for many than a "Rupert Lowe happy to be mid table side" *****il lack of investment led to relegation in 04/05). Many of those that did (and would int he future) get a season ticket for a Premier League campaign wouldn't attend many League One games.

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2381103,00.html £14 for adults, £10 for concessions (seniors and young adults), whilst under 17s can get in for only £5. I'll be going.

It ignores my point that many games were home end sell outs long before matchday. Had the stadium been bigger more home tickets would have been sold. 4 or 5 matches out of 19 League games is not a lot. You then have nearly 75% of Premier League home games against more attractive opposition that you might sell many more home tickets for and thus cancels out the 4 or 5 smaller games. You then also have home cup games and concerts with a larger capacity to increase revenues with. Do you honestly believe Saints couldn't sell more than 29k home tickets for a Premier League match against Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, Tottenham or Liverpool?

On what is that based? Saint have never had a stadium larger than 32k. You can't have more than 32k people in a 32k seater stadium. They do however have access to a ticketing database and to build up a picture how many unique customers have been in the home ends at St Mary's and The Dell. They also have a four year period of 30k+ crowds and numerous home end sell outs long in advance of matchdays.

Nonsense again, many of the games sold out in the home end long in advance of the match. If the stadium was bigger those unable to get tickets due to it selling out would have attended. Also you choose a figure of 31k, again this is strange because Saints had official sell outs of 30k in the 32k stadium, but the attendance was restricted due to segregation and/or the away fans not selling out. For example the Saints vs Pompey game in 2004/05 had an attendance of 30,921 in a stadium with 1,700 empty seats. Yet it was officially a home end sell out long in advance of the day of the match.

Read the first paragraph in combination with the second paragraph (which you ignored).

Jake

Is this from regular, recent and first hand experience of Cork and Howard playing or something else?

Because I doubt his recollection is correct. If you weren't a season ticket holder or a member you wouldn't have been able to get a ticket for a Saints vs Man Utd, Saints vs Arsenal, Saints vs Liverpool etc game on the day because it would have sold out a week or two weeks beforehand. Many people that wanted to go, couldn't.

It is an indication of fanbase size, i.e. if you can sustain 22k averages in the 3rd tier you have a very large fanbase. Many over clubs haven't in recent years or couldn't. A number of current Premier League teams struggle to get much more than a 22k average. If they were in the 3rd tier it would drop dramatically below 22k. Averaging 30k+ for four consecutive years with many games selling out long in advance shows that the stadium is too small. If the stadium was bigger these sell out would have had larger crowds than the 31k or 32k they had. Remember segregation fluctuates from game to game but they are still sell outs.

This is nonsense. In those four seasons Saints had in the Premier League at St Mary's a large number of the games sold out, many of them sold out a week or two weeks before the matchday. Many people were unable to goto the games. You have very much twisted history here.

Which English clubs do you think could do the same? Which English clubs would average 22k in the 3rd tier? Not many is the answer. Again... four consecutive seasons of 30k+ averages suggests that it would be achievable. Yes, 2-3,000 were away fans. But you can only ever get 32k in a 32k stadium at max. So why do you think it is so far fetched to get 30k Saints fans regularly to St Marys?

Who has said 50k crowds? You have yet to comment on four consecutive seasons of 30k+ crowds, with many selling out long before matchday. You can't get 40k or 50k crowds in a 32k stadium, so what evidence do you want? So what is your justification for thinking Saints can't? Yet again, more flawed logic.

Please can you tell me why you keep ignoring that large numbers of games in that four year period sold out long in advance of the matchday? Leaving many unable to go, even though they wanted to. The club was even able to sell circa 30k for matches as a League One side in the last two years vs Leeds, vs Exeter, vs Walsall, and vs MK Dons. That is for games with League One players on show and not internationals. Also it may have been the last game of the season, but the Walsall League One game sold out and many were left unable to get a ticket.

2001/02 2002/03 2003/04 2004/05 Many games in those seasons sold out long in advance of the matchday. Also had The Dell been bigger in the late 1990's the club would also have sold more than 32k for a number of games.

Where were they for Chelsea between 1992 (when the Premier League started) and 1995 (money starting going into them) when they averaged in the Premier League similar to what Saints averaged in League One last season? Attendances fluctuate dependant on many factors, the most important being success on the pitch (often driven by money invested into the club). Success brings in the casual glory hunting fan, potentially in huge numbers.

Why wait until you go up until you start thinking about it? Within the last decade the club has had four consecutive seasons of 30k+ crowds and sold out many games long in advance. You don't need to wait another four years after promotion to see if it will happen again, the demand will still be there. It could potentially be a long process (planning and construction), so if the club really does have ambitions (and the resources required) to see it towards the upper reaches of the top flight, it would be worth planning for infrastructure improvements earlier rather than later. As they have already done with the training ground and academy.

What evidence do you think would suffice...? - 30k+ averages for four consecutive seasons - Many games selling out long in advance of the game - Huge numbers of unique customers on the ticketing database Oh, wait a minute, we have that evidence. Impossible to have evidence of 40k crowds in a 32k seater stadium, so the above is as close as you are going to get.

Can anyone give the date when these "debts" have to be paid back by? No, the accounts make no mention of that.

That is nonsense, many games sold out long in advance of the day of the match. That season the club averaged 31,699 in a 32,689 seater stadium, when you take into account segregation that shows supply was struggling to cope with demand, for what was essentially a mid table campaign for a club that wasn't spending money on the team.

As I previously explained to you, you are assuming clubs like Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea etc are currently at their maximum. That is simply not the case, they are restricted by their stadium and if they all had 60k stadiums they could fill them.

#996 holds the answer (at least it did before you edited it)

Have you listened to the interview and seen the two links? These are noises coming out of the club, not just optimistic/deluded fans. Not pointless at all, this is a forum to discuss Saints related topics. There are noises of stadium development or even relocation if needed coming from those running the club. Not just idle fan gossip from the optimistic/deluded as some claim.